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Solar
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15 Jun 2024 12:17 |
Hi all, Wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction please. My great grandfather was Frederick Henry Gates born 1878 Shirley, Southampton. He married a Annie Lavinia Gearey in Southampton in 1900. They had 5 children together (Frederick, Rosina, Loorance, Reginald and Leslie). In the 1911 census they are living together in 119 Imperial Avenue, Shirley, Southampton.
We have today found out that he had a secret younger lady friend and they ran off together to America, leaving his wife and children. Not sure what year this was though.
Is there anyway I can look into this and where would I start? Many thanks
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ArgyllGran
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15 Jun 2024 12:54 |
He's not with the family in 1921:
Annie Lavinia Gates 1872 Birthplace: Woolston, Hampshire, England Southampton Southampton Hampshire
With Bessie Jane Gearey 1880, Reginald Raymond Gates 1907, Rosina Maude Gates 1902, Frederick Lionel Gates 1901, Lawrence Basil George Gates 1904, Leslie Victor Gates 1910, and Bessie Furnell 1886.
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Solar
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15 Jun 2024 12:57 |
Thank you. May well of been around this time period then.
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Jink20
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15 Jun 2024 13:27 |
You could look at Outward Ship Passenger lists which are available on FindMyPast and Ancestry *************************************************************************
This website holds records for passenger arrivals at Ellis Island, New York the main port of entry on the East Coast.
https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/passenger-result
Gates, Frederick 1921 N/A Aquitania Gates, Frederick 1922 N/A Empress of Scotland Gates, Frederick 1925 Britain Andania
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The National Archives hold passenger lists between 1890 and 1960 within BT 26 - BT 27 and BT 32. To get these records for free you would need to register and sign in. Otherwise there is a charge
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3070
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Solar
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15 Jun 2024 13:30 |
That's great. Thank you.
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nameslessone
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15 Jun 2024 13:32 |
Passenger lists, as mentioned, would be good as they may show who was accompanying. Bear in mind that Frederick may have tried to conceal his identity somewhat eg. Only using Initials.
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Jink20
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15 Jun 2024 13:32 |
I will post what I find................
First name(s) Frederick State New York Last name Gates Country United States Sex Male Destination place - country USA Birth year 1875 Destination country United States Age 50 Ship's name Andania Age as transcribed 50 Ship's master's first name(s) A T Marital status M Ship's master's last name Brown Occupation Retired Shipping line Cunard Departure day 2 Number of passengers 68 Departure month 11 Ship's departure port SOUTHAMPTON Departure year 1925 Ship's destination port New York Departure port Southampton Ship's destination country USA Departure country England Record set Passenger Lists Leaving UK 1890-1960 Entry struck out N Category Travel & migration Destination port New York Subcategory Passenger Lists Destination New York Collections from Great Britain, England, United States, Americas
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Jink20
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15 Jun 2024 13:34 |
First name(s) Frederick Country United States Last name Gates Destination place - country USA Sex Male Destination country United States Birth year 1879 Ship's name Oceanic Age 25 Ship's registered tonnage 17273 Age as transcribed 25 Ship's square feet 15857 Marital status S Ship's master's first name(s) J G Occupation Laborer Ship's master's last name Cameron Departure day 27 Number of passengers 451 Departure month 1 Length of voyage in days 24 Departure year 1904 Ship's departure port LIVERPOOL Departure port Liverpool Ship's destination port New York Departure country England Ship's destination country USA Entry struck out N Record set Passenger Lists Leaving UK 1890-1960 Destination port New York Category Travel & migration Destination New York Subcategory Passenger Lists State New York Collections from Great Britain, England, United States, Americas
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Solar
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15 Jun 2024 13:39 |
Thank you both. I'll take a look into these. Think we can narrow it down to between 1911 and 1921 then, as he's no longer appearing with his family in 1921. Good idea about initial too, thank u!
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ErikaH
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15 Jun 2024 13:41 |
1921 Census Of England & Wales 17, Suffolk Avenue, Southampton, Hampshire, England Annie Lavinia Gates Head Female 1872 48 Woolston, Hampshire, England Upholstress Shepherd & Hedger House Furnisher Frederick Lionel Gates Son Male 1901 20 Woolston, Hampshire, England General Clerk Junior The Cement Mlastking Cement Manufacturers Co Ltd Rosina Maude Gates Daughter Female 1902 18 Southsea, Hampshire, England Seed Teching Laboratory Clerk Toogood & Sons Ltd Seed Merchchants Lawrence Basil George Gates Son Male 1904 17 Southsea, Hampshire, England Boot & Shoe Salesman W J French & Son Boot Maker Out Of Work Reginald Raymond Gates Son Male 1907 13 Andover, Hampshire, England - - Leslie Victor Gates Son Male 1910 11 Southampton, Hampshire, England - - Bessie Jane Gearey Sister Female 1880 41 Woolston, Hampshire, England Private Domestic - Bessie Furnell Friend Female 1886 35 Meonstoke, Hampshire, England Private Domestic
Annie is 'married'.......no further comment on the record
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ErikaH
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15 Jun 2024 13:44 |
I think you can rule out the 1904 sailing of a single man
1911 Census For England & Wales 119 Imperial Avenue Shirley Southampton, Shirley, Hampshire, England
Frederick Gates Head Married Male 33 1878 Upholsterer house Hampshire Southampton Annie Gates Wife Married Female 38 1873 - Hampshire Woolston Frederick Gates Son - Male 10 1901 School Hampshire Woolston Rosina Gates Daughter - Female 8 1903 - Hampshire Portsmouth Lawrence Gates Son - Male 7 1904 - Hampshire Portsmouth Reginald Gates Son - Male 3 1908 - Hampshire Andover Leslie Gates Son - Male 0 1911 - Hampshire Southampton Ellen Pearce Visitor Married Female 47 1864 - Willshire Woodfalls Charles Pearce Visitor Single Male 20 1891 Ships stokier Hampshire Bournemouth Minnie Pearce Visitor Single Female 18 1893 Nurse domestic Hampshire Bournemouth Leonard Pearce Visitor Single Male 15 1896 Shop assistant ironmongery Hampshire Bournemouth Elsie Pearce Visitor - Female 13 1898 School Hampshire Southampton
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Jink20
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15 Jun 2024 13:56 |
UK and Ireland, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960 for Frederick Gates Southampton 1925 Oct. He was 50, she was 39.
Ticket number 3482
This chap travelled with wife Evelyn but listed his previous UK address in Lewes, Sussex
30th October 1925
Ship Andania
See Earlier post
We can exclude this Frederick I think.
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Jink20
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15 Jun 2024 14:20 |
Arrivals to the United States from foreign ports between approximately 1820 and December 1982. The records are arranged by port or airport of arrival.
https://www.archives.gov/research/immigration/passenger-arrival.html
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ErikaH
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15 Jun 2024 14:29 |
Confirming that the 1925 sailing has no relevance
Gates Evelyn Annie 1885 1984 England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 Ringwood & Fordingbridge, Hampshire, England
1921 Census Of England & Wales 15, Akerman Road, Brixton, Lambeth, London & Surrey, England
Frederick Gates Head Male 1875 46 Lewes, Sussex, England Printer & Paper Merchant Traveller J B Blackmore & Coy Limited, Printer Paker Merchants, High Street, Merton Surrey Evelyn Annie Gates Wife Female 1886 35 - Childrens Dress Maker - Elizabeth Hitch Aunt Female 1848 72 Cirencester, Gloucestershire, England
Marriages Dec 1919 (>99%) Gates Frederick Hitch Lambeth 1d 567 Hitch Evelyn A Gates Lambeth 1d 567
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Solar
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15 Jun 2024 17:24 |
Thank you so much for all of your help. Much appreciated.
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Solar
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15 Jun 2024 20:17 |
from the above 1911 census where Frederick is still living with his wife and children I'm wondering about the 18 year old visitor they had staying with them, Minnie Pearce 18. Maybe she was the young lady he sailed off to the US with?
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ArgyllGran
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16 Jun 2024 09:14 |
No, not Minnie. She married and died in England.
In 1901 census, with her siblings and parents, she is Minnie R Pearce.
Birth: PEARCE, MINNIE ROSE mmn WORT GRO Reference: 1893 J Quarter in CHRISTCHURCH, HANTS Volume 02B Page 640
Minnie R Pearce in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915 Name Minnie R Pearce Spouse Surname Player Registration Year 1914 [1914] Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec Registration district Southampton Inferred County Hampshire Volume 2c Page 118 Records on Page (Name) Minnie R Pearce Ernest A Player
Death: PLAYER, MINNIE ROSA 27 GRO Reference: 1921 M Quarter in SOUTHAMPTON Volume 02C Page 52
Her sister Elsie also married (Matcham) and died in England, so not her either.
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ErikaH
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16 Jun 2024 11:37 |
Do you know his exact DoB?
GATES, FREDERICK HENRY WHYMAN GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in SOUTH STONEHAM Volume 02C Page 71
First name(s) Frederick Henry Father's last name Gates Last name Gates Mother's first name(s) Sarah Ann Sex Male Mother's last name Gates Baptism year 1878 Document type Bishop's Transcripts Baptism date 26 May 1878 Record set Hampshire Baptisms Place Freemantle
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Jink20
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16 Jun 2024 12:11 |
Anyone with a Full Ancestry Record could look at the following 1920 United States Federal Census. The result page is blurred to me but one of the results lists as
Orleans, Louisiana
Fred Gates 43 Henrietta Gates 24
Relationship isn't listed. Would Henrietta qualify as a "younger lady friend"?!
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Also
Fred Gates 44 New York, New York - no other occupants listed
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greyghost
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16 Jun 2024 12:25 |
Above posted by Jink20 -
Louisiana - Father and daughter both born Louisiana
and the New York one was born West indies.
There is another in New York (came up when checking the one posted by Jink20), but he was born New York 1875,. He is with Adeline age 28 wife and Lynn 37 brother.
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