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Hi Wanda Just a thought? Could you put up the birth certificates you have already bought looking for Mary Ellen, that way we could all save the thread and keep the information on here? I know I have selected a couple of possibilities which have turned out Wrong and I was interested to see The Quinn Birth Illiminated. I know I have problems after a while where I forget who we have illiminated and who we have not illiminated. It May Help Narrow the Field if we all see them Written up. Know it means digging them all out and printing up each Birth & Parents plus reference number etc, but it may be worth a shot. Love Janice xxxx

Hi Deb,sorry late replying but I dont get on here till night.Yes I sent for the cert and father was James Quinn and mother Mary Jane Quinn formerly Gilligan..Thanks for replying..will keep looking... Wanda

Hello Wanda, Did you look into the birth of Mary E Quinn? I know that I've suggested this to you before, but could Mary Quinn, the widowed neighbour, be Mary Ellen's mother? She is living with John in the following census. Deb:)

ps..by the way...am spending every night going through the 1881 census for the Gouldens..I have a theory beside the Rowbotham one..that John Goulden`s parents are Thomas born Hindley abt 1834 and Martha born Tyldsley1832..They all dissappear in 1881.Not one but the whole family including the Williams,Rowbothams etc...In the Goulden family John is born Manchester abt 1861..What I have done is blanket searched all the Johns in 1881 but nothing seems to fit in with the John I have with a daughter Eliza born abt 1879,so now I am going through all the 1881 census to see if it has been mistranscribed for Chorlton on Medlock...I realised this could be done when I was looking as a whole family by the name of Rutter from next door was mistranscribed as Goulding with the one I was looking for..Never in a million years would that have been found by blanket searching..Have informed Ancestry so hopefully the Rutter family can find their relatives now... Wanda.x

Hi Wanda Sent you a pm with image of a Rowbotham Birth? Sent you pm back when last we spoke abt your brother and not heard back from you? Thought you must be taking a holiday till I saw you back on here. Love Janice xxx

Oh God Janice..Hiya,didnt want to mither you cos know how busy you are! Thank you so much for replying..Yes am still here with Mary Ellen..Why didnt you pm me? The theory on the Rowbotham is brill but I with no brains or eyes couldnt understand or see it!! The fact that 2 people from one family could be at different addresses at the same time was a bit of a `clutching at straws`....Am trying to tie in my appointments at Manchester hospital to visit the library but they keep cancelling..at least now I know Im not dying!!! Keep putting ads in Manchester eve news to see if any connections to us but all I get is crank calls and a bloke that says he was born in the next bed to my grandmother and that she had long brown hair!!! God help giving birth to all that fuzz thats all I can say!! LOL.Wanda.x

Hi Wanda I like that Mary Ellen Rowbotham birth, remember looking for ages at Thomas Rowbotham and trying to get to the truth will have to take a look now! Janice xxx

Nudging to go with request...

Now Andrea that is interesting..I already tried the Mary Ellen Williams birth cert theory and that was a no no.Will send for that and let you know...One other theory is that perhaps the childrens last name wasnt Williams.That John Williams was John William Goulden and the enumerator got it wrong and just put Williams down..Will see...Thanks for reply again and thanks OC for replying..I wait in hope for my links!...Wanda.x

A different take I found this for 1891 which I assume is the one previously mentioned as widow Mary Quinn is next door Name: John Goulden Age: 32 Estimated birth year: abt 1859 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Sarah Father's name: Thomas Gender: Male Where born: Manchester Civil parish: Chorlton On Medlock Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints Town: Manchester County/Island: Lancashire Registration district: Chorlton Sub-registration district: Chorlton upon Medlock ED, institution, or vessel: 43 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Eliza Goulden 12 dau (not sure of the age on this) John Goulden 32 Sarah Goulden 30 Thomas Rowbotham 62 father John Williams 5 son Sarah Ann Williams 3 dau Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3187; Folio 109; Page 18; GSU roll: 6098297. I think that Thomas Rowbotham is Sarah's father as I can find a suitable family in 1871. I looked for a marriage between John Goulden and Sarah Williams - no luck. Also no marriage between Sarah Rowbotham and a Williams. There was this birth though Name: Mary Ellen Rowbottom Year of Registration: 1892 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec DISTRICT: Chorlton County: Lancashire Volume: 8c Page: 894 Maybe John never married Sarah

Wanda I got my hotmatches two weeks ago and sent out 13 messages. I have only had three replies. Mostly I am OFFERING them information, not looking for information! OC

Just thought I`d add this...Out of all the hot matches I get regarding the name Goulden..isnt it funny that not one person answers that is researching that name...I would be in there like a shot if someone put any variance or the name on the board...Like you did OC when I said about having the name Holden in my family and you wanted to know if it was your elusive relative...I would love to do a research and see how many people actually do use the boards that are registered on GR..Not so many by the looks of it.....And..no Im not waffling.Have contacted people on Ancestry who are definately connected to my family and not one reply...How sad is that.......Love to you all for helping me...We have a lovely crowd on here and cant thank everyone enough for what they do...Wanda.x

Sorry but family descended on me after having eaten themselves.Not had a bite to eat and ended up babysitting so sorry for leaving it so long to reply.... Thanks OC..I do know what you mean but it seems really wierd that Mary Ellen was Goulden on everything from the birth of William in 1911 onwards.She learnt to spell so at an early age she knew her name was Goulden..I am leaning towards Golden...but if my investigations come to anything then I will be totally wrong as the family I think could be hers has that many different spellings of the name then I will be buying certs forevermore.... Just wanted someone to come up with something different that I could have missed..I have 5 lines of Gouldens going at the moment..trying to eliminate the Johns out of them but then they convert to Goulding and then Golding so its just one mixed bunch...Anyway thanks for replying and sorry its taken so long for me to get back to you..Wanda.x

Wanda As I think I explained before, the difference in spelling is all down to the local Lancashire accent. My Holdens are often Houldens. It depended who was writing it down, what the writer heard, etc, - and it really didnt matter to most people how their name was spelled - it was just some baffling government document which didnt seem very important to anyone, and was being filled in under duress anyway. I really wouldn't get hung up on the spelling of the surname. OC

Thanks Peter in NZ.Will look at those 2...Thanks for trying Christine..Thanks Jennifer Yorkshire.I can eliminate the Chorley but will look at the Wigan one...And Jennifer Wright.Thanks for that you have now confirmed what I thought for 1891.Reg got it right for 1901 as you say.Sorry if this is long winded but wondered if anyone could see something different that I could have missed. What baffles me is why Mary Ellen spelt her name Goulden.John is Goulden in 1891 but Golden in 1901.All the probable Gouldens for her birth just dont seem to tie in. Could it be that a mistake was made in the spelling and that Goulden stuck but really their name was Golden? That could bring the probable Derby birth of Mary Ellen Golden into it...Will plod on...and thanks to all who helped.Jennifer W am going to pm you with a small query if thats ok..Its about the images you sent me.and thanks for keeping them big.Much appreciated.Wanda x

Wanda, It looks as if Reg has found your family in 1901. Both John GOULDEN and Mary QUINN were widowed. I think I have found them in 1891, John is with his wife Sarah and Mary QUINN is a widow living next door. I will send you the images direct, the 1891 image is poor and I have tied to clean it up a bit for you. Jennifer

one of these be any good? Mary Ellen Goulding 1891 Oct-Nov-Dec Wigan Greater Manchester, Lancashire View Record Mary Ellen Goulding 1894 Apr-May-Jun Chorley Lancashire

okay sorry - so thats not the one... I will think again for you.

mary ellen goulden june 1895 leigh manchester volume 8c page 317 found in just a few minutes on Free BMD page.....

Outside chance - Mary Ellen Golden Dec Q 1893 Derby 7b 524 Or Mary Ellen Goulding Runcorn Dec Q 1892 8a 201 Peter