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I have a Martin Knott b 1867 Holborn to a William and Frances Knott. I have Martin only on the 1881 (RG11/0250 6/92/5 -with mother and father) and not on the 1871! He was only 4/5yrs old. Can't find him anywhere else.. Can anyone help? Ta Leeanne

For Ref 1881 Household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability William KNOTT Head M Male 52 Westminster Printer Emp 5 Men & 5 Boys Frances KNOTT Wife M Female 47 Southwark Frank KNOTT Son U Male 22 St Pancras Compositor Geo. KNOTT Son U Male 21 St Pancras Compositor Kate KNOTT Daur U Female 17 Holborn Frances KNOTT Daur U Female 15 Holborn Martin KNOTT Son Male 13 Holborn Scholar Cicely KNOTT Daur Female 8 Holborn Scholar Fred. KNOTT Son Male 3 Islington -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling 35 Halliford St Census Place London, Middlesex, England Family History Library Film 1341054 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 0250 / 92 Page Number 5 1871? - no sign of Martin though Name: William Knott Age: 42 Estimated birth year: abt 1829 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Frances Gender: Male Where born: Westminster, Middlesex, England Civil parish: St Andrew Holborn Ecclesiastical parish: St Alban County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Holborn Sub-registration district: St Andrew Eastern ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 157 Household Members: Name Age Edward Knott 10 Frances Knott 37 Frances E Knott 5 Frank Knott 12 George Knott 11 Henry W Knott 16 Margaret M Knott 1 William Knott 42 Mary L Robinson 16 Servant)

Aha.....so you see my problem.... I have all census from 1861 to 1901 for Williams family.... So where was martin? he was only little!!

Do you know his grandparents names? May be he was with them?

no....no idea....am stuck with his father William.. Have William marrying wife Frances in 1854 Bermondsey Surrey, then in census 1861 and onwards..nothing before then for William who is my BIG dead end

Do you have William and Frances's marriage cert? That should give you his fathers name. I'd advise you to get it if you've not.

absolutely do.....first thing I got, listed father as Thomas with what look like 'dau' written with that looping writing, was discussed here in forum, decided that meant deceased, Gr lol

from the 1871 census on British Origins:- Could this be your Martin? Reference details Census 1871 TNA Ref xxxx Image No xxxx Folio No 64 Page No 50 Entry No 7 Location details County London-Surrey Superintendent Registrar's District ST SAVIOUR Registrar's Sub-District ST PETER WALWORTH Enumeration District No 2 Civil Parish ST MARY NEWINGTON City or Municipal Borough Municipal Ward ST PAUL Parliamentary Borough LAMBETH Town Village or Hamlet Local Board Ecclesiastical District ST PAUL Schedule No 308 Street SUTHERLAND PLACE Record details First name MARTIN Last name KNOTT Title Misc Relation Visitor Age 3 Sex M Birth County Middlesex Looks as though he is with John and Jane Cowbury (???sp.) I'll now see if I can find it in the 1871 on Ancestry

Jeez mhairi Don't know, there aren't any Cowbury's or similar in my tree or relevant census Could be

Leeanne, The image on British Origins is difficult to read .... I was guessing at Cowbury! I can't seem to drag anything out on ancestry ..... which is weird!

I cant take credit i'm afraid, the last one is all Sylvia's work Cant see it either!

Hahahaha My apologies ladies!! Very unusual isn't it? What was the address sylvia? Any chance you could send me the image? Martin must've run off with the gypsy's or something... Maybe hospital?

Here it is on Ancestry (they've mistranscribed both his surname and age!): Name: John Courbury Age: 53 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Jane Gender: Male Where born: London, Middlesex, England Civil parish: St Mary Newington Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul County/Island: London Registration district: St Saviour Southwark Sub-registration district: St Peter Walworth ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 908 Household Members: Name Age Emma Courbury 16 Jane Courbury 54 John Courbury 53 John Courbury 27 Mary Courbury 19 Sarah Courbury 13 Martin Smith 9 RG10; Piece: 614; Folio: 64; Page: 50

Here it is on Ancestry ...... all mucked up!! about John Courbury Name: John Courbury Age: 53 Estimated birth year: abt 1818 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Jane Gender: Male Where born: London, Middlesex, England Civil parish: St Mary Newington Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: St Saviour Southwark Sub-registration district: St Peter Walworth ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 908 Household Members: Name Age Emma Courbury 16 Jane Courbury 54 John Courbury 53 Printer John Courbury 27 Printer Mary Courbury 19 Sarah Courbury 13 Martin Smith 9 Martin Smith age 9 ........... on image looks more like Knott and is age 3!!! Over to you!! Sylvia

Address is 4 Sutherland Place

Got it though its difficult to make out his second name and whats written in the occupation bit ? son Name: Jane Courbury Age: 54 Estimated birth year: abt 1817 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: John Gender: Female Where born: Ash, Surrey, England Civil parish: St Mary Newington Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: St Saviour Southwark Sub-registration district: St Peter Walworth ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 908 Household Members: Name Age Emma Courbury 16 Jane Courbury 54 John Courbury 53 John Courbury 27 Mary Courbury 19 Sarah Courbury 13 Martin Smith 9

So now to work out why he is with the Courbury's!

I think both Johns' are Printers

Cant see the Courbury's in the 1861. I agree with Sylvia, looks like Printer and Martin is a Printers son?

Thanks all.. In 1871 Martin would have been around 4/5 Is the p[lace of residence anywhere near grenville st Finsbury ecc parish St Albans The only commonality is the fact John Courbury (sp) was a printer as was Martins father William