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I’ve got a bit of a brickwall that I’ve tried to solve before. I’m sure some of you will probably recognise it! I thought I’d post it again in case anyone can think of something I can try. In 1865 Jeremiah Smith married Mary Jenkinson in Barnsley. His age was given as “full”, his occupation as miner, residence as Barnsley and his father is Joseph Smith, also a miner. All this information comes from the marriage certificate. In 1868 they have my great-great grandfather James Smith in Worsbrough Dale (which is near Barnsley). His father is given as Jeremiah Smith, coal miner. This information comes from the birth certificate. I have never found this family on any census return. The reason for this is that on the census returns he calls himself Joseph Baxter. It all fits because all the children Jeremiah Smith has (according to parish records) are the same age as those of Joseph Baxter. Joseph Baxter never baptises children or gets married in that parish, and Jeremiah Smith never appears on census returns for that village. Added to that, my great-great grandfather’s nickname was ‘Stiffy Baxter’. So I’m pretty sure Jeremiah Smith and Joseph Baxter are one and the same. My problem is trying to trace Jeremiah Smith/Joseph Baxter before 1861. His place of birth varies on the census returns I have for him from 1861 to 1901. 1861 - Deith, Lancs 1871 - Heskley 1881 - Darfield, Yorks 1891 - Ashley, Lancs 1901 - Lancs, NK (Not Known) He does live in Worsbrough on all these census returns, so we can at least assume he moves to Yorkshire by 1861! Apart from that I’m at a loss as to what to do. Does anyone have any ideas? Does what I say make sense at all? Thank you to anyone who even reads this, let alone helps!

Seems like this one is just a bit too tough! Thanks to everyone who had a look though.

Have had a look at your request - does any of the chldren have a unusual name that really pinpoints the fact that jerimiah and Joseph are one and the same ? why would jerimiah smith change his name to joseph baxter?

Can you post all the census details you have for Joseph Baxter having probs finding them for some reason ~ good start eh. Thanks Zoe

On 1871 Joseph Baxter is actually down as James!! He's like someone I have in my tree.~ v annoying! Zoe

Hi, can you give some refs from census returns where you found them please, Sue. x

Pressuming he did'nt use the name Joseph Baxter untill he was a adult and him saying he was born Lancs on most census returns (Astley in 1891) and In 1861 Deith, (could this be ***Leigh***)??? as in 1851 below! Could this be him in Lancashire in 1851: Not much help interms of him being with Joseph his father though! Jeremiah is a errand boy View Record Alice Smith abt 1833 Astley, Lancashire, England Niece Astley Lancashire View Record Catharine Smith abt 1787 Astley, Lancashire, England Head Astley Lancashire View Record Elizabeth Smith abt 1794 Astley, Lancashire, England Sister Astley Lancashire View Record Ellen Smith abt 1792 Astley, Lancashire, England Sister Astley Lancashire >>>View Record Jeremiah Smith abt 1837 Astley, Lancashire, England Nephew Astley Lancashire View Record Thomas Smith abt 1811 Astley, Lancashire, England Nephew Astley Lancashire ***Leigh*** Sub-registration district: Lowton ED, institution, or vessel: 2c Folio: 285 Page: 18 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 39 GSU Number: 87214 *********************************************** Having said that there is this entry for Jeremiah with father Joseph, however occupation for Joseph is Silk Weaver. Area again is Leigh! Looks like they may be related to above family! View Record Betsey Smith abt 1840 Astley, Lancashire, England Daughter Astley Lancashire View Record James Smith abt 1843 Astley, Lancashire, England Son Astley Lancashire > >>View Record Jeremiah Smith abt 1839 Astley, Lancashire, England Son Astley Lancashire View Record John Smith abt 1846 Astley, Lancashire, England Son Astley Lancashire >>>View Record Joseph Smith abt 1819 Astley, Lancashire, England Head Astley Lancashire View Record Mary Smith abt 1809 Worsley, Lancashire, England Wife Astley Lancashire HO107/2204 Registration district: Leigh Sub-registration district: Lowton ED, institution, or vessel: 2c Folio: 288 Page: 24 Household schedule number: 54 GSU Number: 87214

If people are brave enough to look dont you owe it to us to put down the details you have got to help in the search

On the 51 Lancs... in Astley. Joseph Smith b 1819 Mary Smith b 1809 with children Jeremiah 1839/ Betsey 1840/James 1843 and John 1846. All born Astley.. apart from Mary. Sue

Very sorry everyone. As I got no response first time round I thanked you all for the trouble and went to go do the ironing! Didn't expect anyone to reply. If you give me a few minutes I'll post all the information I have. Please don't be angry, I just didn't think anyone was interested.

I found the same Joseph Smith with wife Mary in 1861 census. His occupation is now Collier (miner) I think it is looking like he could be Jeremiah's father! 1861 James is a Drawer in coal mine. John is a Dalter? in a coal mine. View Record James Smith abt 1844 Astley, Lancashire, England Son Astley Lancashire View Record John Smith abt 1846 Astley, Lancashire, England Son Astley Lancashire >>>View Record Joseph Smith abt 1820 Astley, Lancashire, England Head Astley Lancashire View Record Mary Smith abt 1811 Worsley, Lancashire, England Wife Astley Lancashire RG9/2800 Registration district: Leigh Sub-registration district: Culcheth ED, institution, or vessel: 2e Folio: 37 Page: 23 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 141 GSU Number: 543031

Jess - They are definitely one and the same person. We searched for years for my Great-Great grandfather on the 1881 census (James Smith b 1868 Worsbrough) and couldn't find him. When we looked for a James Baxter b 1868 we found him, with the right mother's name. We then took the search to the parish records. Worsbrough is not very big at all, I know because my Grandma was born there and I've been taken there a few times. There were no Baxter children of those names in the parish records but there were Smith children of exactly the same name born to Jeremiah and Mary. Add that to the fact Jeremiah and his family never appear on any census records and the fact James' nickname was 'stiffy Baxter' its a very very convincing arguement!

Have you read above info posted for 1851 (Jeremiah and Joseph Smith)

Ok 1861 census Worsbrough RG 9/3452 p23 Schedule 111 Francis Fitton Head M 40 Coal Miner Kirkburton Sarah Wife M 35 Newmillerdam Schedule 111a Joseph Baxter Lodge U 21 Coal Miner Lancs, Deith Mary Jenkinson who marries Jeremiah Smith says her father is Francis Fitton, which ties in with this census return. Below is his future wife Mary with her first illegitimate child Folio 67 p 35 Darley Main Benjamin Hoyland Head 60 M Colliery Fireman Hoyland, Yorks Ann Hoyland Wife 57 M Brethan?, Yorks John Jenkinson S in Law 14 U Colliery Labourer Worsborough, Yorks Mary Fitten G. Dau 17 U Worsborough, Yorks Jemima Fitten G. Dau 7 mo Worsborough, Yorks 1871 census Worsbrough Worsbrough Schedule 187 45, 54 James Baxter Head M 30 Coal Miner Heskley Mary Baxter Wife M 27 Worsbrough Jemima Baxter Dau U 10 Worsbrough Frank Baxter Son U 7 Worsbrough Joseph Baxter Son U 6 Worsbrough James Baxter Son U 3 Worsbrough Henry Baxter Son U 10m Worsbrough Mary Jenkinson does have 2 illegitimate children, Jemima and Frank. Both are registered as Jemima Jenkinson and Frank Jenkinson, not Fitten.

1881 census 4 Jarratts Buildings, Worsborough, Yorks RG11 4609/52 35 Joseph Baxter Head M 41 Darfield, Yorks Coal Miner Mary Baxter Wife M 37 ' Frank Baxter Son 17 ' Coal miner Joseph Baxter Son 15 ' ' James Baxter ' 13 ' ' Henry Baxter ' 11 ' Scholar Sarah Ann Baxter Dau 6 ' ' Elizabeth Baxter ' 3m ' '

Lady Liberty - Those census returns from 1851 do look good! The question is which one is he? Someone did mention a Joseph Baxter b 1846 in Leigh and that he was a grandson. Would it be possible to get the information on that one too? I'm trying to work out why on earth he uses two names!

1891 census 23 Charles Street, Worsboro Joseph Baxter Head 52 Coal Miner Lancs, Ashley Mary Baxter Wife 48 Worsboro Joseph Baxter Son 25 Coal Miner Worsboro Henry Baxter Son 21 Coal Miner Worsboro Sarah Ann Baxter Dau 15 Elizabeth Baxter Dau 10 Walter Baxter Son 7 Mary Ellen Dau 3 Israel Gibson Boarder 23 Coal Miner Hoyland 1901 census RG13 4323 93 26 23 Charles Street, Worsborough Bridge, Yorks Joseph Baxter Head M 62 LANCS Nk Coalminer Hewer Belowground Mary Baxter Wife M 58 Yorks,Worsborough Joseph Baxter Son S 35 ' Coalminer Trammer Belowground Walter Baxter Son S 16 ' Pony Driver Colliery Below ground Mary Ellen Baxter Dau S 13 ' Arthur Baxter Gson 3 '

In 1861 Joseph Smith occupation is Collier (miner) in 1851 he is a Silk weaver, the change of occupation suggest this Joseph is Jeremiah's father (occupation for Joseph ( is stated as Miner on Jeremiah's marriage cert) in 1865! So your Jeremiah is looking like he is son of Joseph and Mary in 1851 census above!

Lady Liberty - Thats very true. I'm just confused as to why he uses two different names! I thought perhaps he might have been illegitimate or something. Now I'm wondering if he had a criminal past!