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Hi everyone, I am stuck on one ancestor which is driving me insane. Thomas Kent . Who married Eliza Wilson born Middx. They had 3 children Arthur 1857, Lewis. (Nov) 1858. Sarah 1860/1 Eliza was born 1836/7. Both arthur and Lewis were reg. in Edmonton / Enfield. Other info I have is that Lewis and Sarah were with their maternal Grandmother (sarah) in the 1871 census. Eliza was in service and shown as widowed & Arthur was also in Service. Eliza remarried in 1873. What I can't find is: A Birth for Thomas: (he could have been any age when he married Eliza) The marriage between : Thomas & Eliza (most likely around 1855) Any mention of the family on the 1861 census: (The address on Lewis's birth cert. is 25 Enfield Lock.) A Death for Thomas: (must be between 1860 & 1871) So if anyone could find a marriage ref. I would be most grateful as at least I could order the cert. which would hopefully give me a Fathers name for Thomas perhaps even his age. Any info on the rest would be a real bonus. Ever Hopeful Lynn.

Linda Where have you looked? To save going over old ground....... Also, I think you need to alter Arthur's birth year...it's a bit confusing to say 1837, and ask for an 1885 marriage Rosemary

Rosemary. Have tried ancestry, Bmd, LDS, 1837, Genuki and various other minor sites (+ the one not to mention that says 'information now complete- but searches not active yet!!!) I'm sorry but have just re-read my message and cannot see any mention of 1885! Lynn.

Too much in too small a space! Please excuse me! Thomas Kent . Who married Eliza Wilson born Middx. They had 3 children Arthur 1837, Lewis. (Nov) 1858. Sarah 1860/1 Eliza was born 1836/7. Both arthur and Lewis were reg. in Edmonton / Enfield. Other info I have is that Lewis and Sarah were with their maternal Grandmother (sarah) in the 1871 census. Eliza was in service and shown as widowed & Arthur was also in Service. Eliza remarried in 1873 What I can't find is: A Birth for Thomas: (he could have been any age when he married Eliza) The marriage between : Thomas & Eliza (most likely around 1855) Any mention of the family on the 1861 census: (The address on Lewis's birth cert. is 25 Enfield Lock.) A Death for Thomas: (must be between 1860 & 1871) So if anyone could find a marriage ref. I would be most grateful as at least I could order the cert. which would hopefully give me a Fathers name for Thomas perhaps even his age. Any info on the rest would be a real bonus. Ever Hopeful

Now i can read it! and wonder this... Please can you check your records for birth dates of Eliza and the children jess

You say you have checked 1837 for the marriage entry? I'm guessing that there would be records for both these names in most, if not all, quarters. Have you definitely cross ref'd between the two names for all quarters two or three years each side of the expected marriage date?? Sarah

Should that be 1857 for Arthur not 1837 ? Have you checked the IGI for the marriage .... ? Dancer x

Jess, How do you do that? I put loads of gaps in the original message and when it was posted it was all crammed together, bet the same happens with this. I have Lewis's birth cert which confirms his dob. arthur and sarahs have been worked out from census and also a distant relative who is following another line but his crossed Eliza's and he confirmed her age and childrens. Yes have checked marriages for both Kents and Wilsons on 1837 and although plenty of both none appear to match, similar on BMD (often more females than males or vice-versa)

Whoops, yes 1857 for Arthur 1837 was Eliza. just going to rinse the blush away!

Linda, All REPLIES come out neatly ...its just the initial posting that is cramped up. You will notice that some people put a thread up and add ...see below ... then put the bulk of the message as a reply to their own thread. Dancer x

Sorry, Linda..........finger trouble; I should have typed 1855 for the marriage date......... Rosemary

Eliza's second marriage in 1873 ..have you got the marriage cert ? If so, does it give her name as Eliza Kent nee Wilson ... or did she marry as Eliza Wilson. Bear in mind that they may NOT have married before the children were born ... if at all. They could have married in 1860 when the second child was born ... Dancer x Linda, With you not being able to find them on 1861 census, suggests to me the possibility that Thomas (father) MAY have recently died ... and so the Census went uncompleted. a possibility that I have found works for me time and time again ! ...

No haven't a cert for her second marriage (this has been researched by the other researcher though) and I'm pretty sure it would have been Eliza Kent, as her children from the 2nd marriage all had Kent as a second name (sweet eh!). Hadn't considered they might have married later as Lewis birth cert in 1858 shows Eliza nee Wilson. Possible that Thomas died before last child was born though, makes it even sadder.

You may think I'm going loopy..........but, I put Lewis, b. Enfield in 1861 search........found this lot. Are the names and ages JUST coincidence? Or did the enumerator misread his notes when transferring the records to the official census sheet? I'd be interested to know what you think........... Arthur Atkins abt 1857 Enfield, Middlesex, England Son Bethnal Green Middlesex Eliza Atkins abt 1836 S Geo East, Middlesex, England Wife Bethnal Green Middlesex Lewis W Atkins abt 1859 Enfield, Middlesex, England Son Bethnal Green Middlesex Matilda E Atkins abt 1860 Bethnal Gr, Middlesex, England Daughter Bethnal Green Middlesex Thomas Atkins abt 1832 Cubley, Derbyshire, England Head Bethnal Green Middlesex I realise the daughter's name is different..................however, looking at 1871, Sarah's birth is listed as 1863 Rosemary Hi Dancer x Hi Jess x

Linda, You say you have Sarah living with Grandma on the 1871 census ... ''where does it say Sarah was born ' ???? IF dad Thomas is deceased when Sarah was registered, her birth cert will say so, it will give Dad's name and then say 'deceased' ... which will narrow down a date of death for Dad. Dancer x

Hi Rosemary x I did find that entry but Matilda threw me !! Maybe Sarah is a chosen preference to the name Matilda ? ? What do you think Linda ? Dancer x

Dancer This is 1871.................. Lewis Kent abt 1859 Enfield Grandson Bethnal Green London Sarah Kent abt 1863 Bethnal Green Granddaughter Bethnal Green London Douglas Wilson abt 1855 Whitechapel Son Bethnal Green London George L Wilson abt 1846 Whitechapel Son Bethnal Green London Sarah Wilson abt 1811 Shoreditch Head Bethnal Green London Rosemary

Rosemary, I Think you've done it!!! Where did you find it! Definatley correct as Atkins is the bit That Confirms it, that comes from Eliza's side! Sarah's second name was Matilda so it has just been reversed. I am so pleased you are a star, at least I now have a lead on Thomas that just wasn't there before, although I had considered he might come from elsewhere in the country but where to start!!!! All this and spaces too!!! Blast it's too early for a drink. Just going to run round the Garden shouting instead, might even manage to drown out next doors Builders Bl***y radio. Thankyou, Thankyou. Thankyou Ps. It was my Birthday yesterday I Had a Dreadful day (work etc.) think I'll change to the 15th that will confuse them all in a hundred years!!!

As Sarah's age in 1871 is 8, and her birth was Bethnal Green, she is not the same child as Matilda, even if they are the right family. As Sarah's birth was Bethnal Green,and the 'Atkins' family were there in 1861, it certainly makes more likely the chance of an enumerator's transcription error, but only the certs will confirm either way, I fear. Rosemary

So Dad Thomas died 1862 onwards but before March 1871 ........... I'm searching ! Dancer x Nothing on FreeBMD that matches :-(