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Can anyone help me please I found my great gran in Manchester on 1901 census, she was widowed, dress and material maker, head of house and had her daughter Lilian aged 9 living with her. They where Helen Stewart Watt born 1860 in Arbroath Scotland, Lilian Watt born 1891 in Chorlton Manchester, although on the census it says they're both from Arbroath Scotland. Can anyone see my Great gran on 1891 census?, could of course be either in Manchester or Scotland!!!! They lived in the Manchester area until they died (Helen in 1940 and Lilian in 1964) fingers crossed PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP ME?????!!!!!! Val

think this may be her: ***1891**** Cavendish Road, Aylesford, LEICS Watt, Helen 31 Sct Visitor single Aylestone Leicestershire - tailoress Watt, John 73 Sct Visitor widower Aylestone Leicestershire - retired farner visitting these: Yates, Elizabeth 29 Sct Wife Aylestone Leicestershire Yates, Frank J 2 Leicestershire Son Aylestone Leicestershire Yates, John 50 Herefordshire Head Aylestone Leicestershire - drapers assistant

sorry - thats in 1891!!

closest I can see in 1881 is a servant living in reading but she was born Midlothian so a bit out

thanks Zoe will see if any if these names are recognised!!! regards Val

Hi again Zoe which year is the Aylesford Helen on please Val

Val - added date to the reply sorry - I was having a waffle hour - you know - when your brain goes all woolly

Sorry Zoe, It must be the time of year, I missed the date when reading your message, or i'm blind as a bat!!!! Many thanks for your help Merry Christmas Val

Could she be under her maiden name on 1881 - I won't assume it is Stewart but if Lilian was only child she may well not be married in 1881. Why is she single in 1891 but widowed in 1901 with the same name?? or am I having a woolly moment.

on the 1891 she is with her father (a widow) and listed as single. I read into it that the family they were with was her sister (she's also born Scotland) and that even tho she says in teh 1901 she was widowed she wasnt really and she was just hiding having a child out of wedlock hence having teh same name. Or - it could be totally the worng person My heads spinning now - I think I need a lie down

Have you got Lilian's birth certificate???

This certificate may solve a mystery Name: Watt, Lilian Record Type: Births Quarter: December Year: 1891 District: Chorlton County: Lancashire Volume: 8c Page: 933 (click to see others on page)

Hi Tricia yes I have Lilians birth certificate. As well as the details you have, her fathers name is down as, William Lennox Watt, a newspaper compositor. I think that Stewart was her second given (Christian name) The woman I believe to be her maternal grandmothers maiden name. John Watt (who is supposed to have died in 1876) and Margaret Akin where Helens parents. Apart from Helen they had 3 other children. I found on the 1881 census Margaret, as a widow, (head) at 7 West Abbey St, Arbroath, living with her other children they where James B aged 31, Sarah E aged 24, and Alexander aged 18. Her maternal grandparents where, Hugh Akin and Margaret Stewart.!! Unless I have the wrong family her mother was the widow!! So now I'm even more confused!! HELP regards Val

Valerie have you traced William Lennox Watt back to 1891? Helen would most certainly have been pregnant at the timeof this census so he should be around somewhere Zoe

I'm confused too. John Watt can't be dead in 1881 and alive in 1891 - that's the wrong way round. Needs a bit of sorting out,I think. Would 73 be the correct age for John Watt if he were alive in 1891?

Do you have marriage details of Helen and William or do you know age/birthplace of William. There are hundreds on 1881 and he may be dead by 1891. If she was married to this William Watt how can her father be John Watt - were they all called Watt or What?? Need help.

Hi again Tricia and Zoe I have no proof of the marriage between William and Helen! He was born 24 Jan 1866, and on the 1881 census I have a William Lennox Watt, born that time in Forfar, age 14 an apprentice printer.!!!! I have no death for him. No havent traced William back to 1891, cant even find Helen then!! I wonder who else I can confuse, if you looked up the rest of the family you'ld jump in a lake!!!! HELP!!!!!!! regards Val

you need help!!!!!!! what about poor old me? I'm demented!!!! maybe the whole of Forfar where Watts!!!! I hope its not intermarrying, kissing cousins etc! regards Val

What is Lilian's mothers name exactly as given on the birth cert and age?

I'm just nipping out ... but when I come back I'll have a closer look ... see if a fresh pair of eyes and ears can help at all. Elaine :-)