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I have just spent 3 hours in the library but not really got any further.
Leonard Smith is my grandfather. THe one that I have is on 1901 at Swanscombe with his parents George William Smith and Mary Ann nee Johnson.
Leonard Smith never married my grandmother but after my grandmother died he then married a Hilda Tate. Now Hilda had previously been married and had 5 children so I am not sure if Tate is her married or maiden name.
I had been searching for a Leaonrd Smith marrying Hilda Tate between about 1946 and 1953.
Leonard and Hilda are some sort of cousins.
I tried from another angle today as they had 2 children. Lily and Freddie. I was searching for a Lily Smith born right area and dates. I found one that was born Chatham Oct quarter 1948 and her mothers maiden name is Johnson which coincides with Leonards mothers name. Now the question is was this Lilys mother Hilda and was she married to a Tate first and is there a marriage somewhere between a Leonard Smith and a Hilda Johnson.



Phew
Think I have put all the details.
Gloria

The best thing to do would be to order this Lily's birth certificate, giving Hilda as the mother's name as a reference checking point.

Hopefully if her mother's name IS Hilda, it will also give you her maiden name AND her previous married name (if indeed she was previously married).

Are you sure Leonard actually married Hilda? I was just thinking that if he never married your grandmother, then maybe he didn't marry Hilda either.

Kath. x

Yes as far as I know he did marry Hilda. He never married my grandmother as she was already married and refused to divorce for some reason. I think her first husband abandoned her.

Do you have any birth certs of children of Leonard and your grandmother ,it will only give his occupation but it might help

When did Leonard and Hilda die ,as the index may give date of birth /age

I've looked through the marriage index from 1945 to 1955 and there is no marriage for a Hilda Tate to a Smith.

Could Hilda be a middle name? Could the spelling of Tate be different, i.e. Tait ?

If it was me I would buy the birth certificate for Lily and see what it has to say about the mother's name, as if it's the right one it should say Hilda Smith, late Tate, formerly Johnson.

Kath. x

I have my fathers birth certificate but thats no help as grandmother in her wisdom put her husbands name on the birth certificate.
Leonard died 1964 but I have not got his death certificate as there are several that it may be.
My main problem is tryig to determine that I have the correct Leonard SMith on 1901 census so I need know the father of Leonard Smith who married HIlda

Do you know where Leonard and Hilda lived?
If so you could check electoral lists to find out how they recorded themselves, ie. whether they were both SMITH and / or whether Hilda was her first name.


Gwyn

do you know what area they might have married in

If it is any help, there is a Frederick (Freddy?) Smith registered in Q1 1951 with mothers maiden name of Johnson, also Chatham., so does reinforce the maiden name.

Gail.

Thank you Gail, I never had time to look for Freddy. To much of a coincidence not to be the ones.

So if my theory is correct then. There should be a Hilda Johnson marrying somebody with a surname Tate.

afraid I dont know where they lived. I think they moved to Gravesend later on in their marriage.
Both common names so it really is a hard one to crack

Hi

I have been having a look through the BMD and there is a marriage for a Hilda L A JOHNSON to a Frank E? TAIT in Strood Registration District in Quarter 1 1935. 2a 1352 I think, bit smudgy.

There are children registered to a TAIT MMN of Johnson in Chatham/Strood area in 1938, 1942 and 1945, have not done a comprehensive check.

Could this be your Hilda...

Gail. x

that looks like my one then doesnt it?

I wonder if the L stands for Lily.

Looks like I was spelling Tate wrong then. so its TAIT
You are a genious Gail
Thank you.

Moreen J Tait sept qtr 1938 mmn Johnson Strood
Edwin J Tait sept qtr 1942 Chatham
Thomas R J Tait mar qtr 1945 Chatham

There's an Edwin J Tait on the electoral roll in Kent with a Jean D Tait. A son, Ashley Neil, born Chatham in 1985 MMN Roberts is at the same address.

Janice

Looks like the same family had a son Stephen in 1992 in Chatham district also. Both names are linked to a Rosie in Quicksearch.

Thats great thank you for all the help. THey would only be step relations as it is Leonard Smith that is my grandfather. I really need to find his marriage to Hilda Johnson or work my way backwards to connect the 2 as cousins. I have all the details about Leonard SMith so when I find his marriage I just hope he has put the correct fathers name to confirm he is the right one.

Thanks Janice, I have contacted Rosie. There is also anohter Sinead with a possible Ashley so have contacted her as well although I did a search for Edwin and nothing showed up

FOUND IT !!(i hope)
Leonard Smith -------Smith or Tait
Chatham
mar qtr 1957
vol 5b
page 682

Looked at Smith and Tait both have Hilda L.A.