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Would this be Rose's marriage?
Marriages Dec 1913
Facey Clements W Marriner Camberwell 1d 1523
Marriner Annie L Facey Camberwell 1d 1523
** Russell Rosina M Smith Camberwell 1d 1523
** Smith Walter T Russell Camberwell 1d 1523
So she was Rosina.
This is the only one of them who could have been 3 mo old in the 1891:
Name: Rosina Russell
Year of Registration: 1890
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Stepney (To 1921)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 427
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And this is Lydia's marriage:
Marriages Jun 1908
Bellamy Frederick Charles Greenwich 1d 1777
** HUGHES William Henry Greenwich 1d 1777
Robinson Ada Mary Greenwich 1d 1777
** Russell Lydia May Greenwich 1d 1777
So she's Lydia May ... and there's only one of them:
Name: Lydia May Russell
Year of Registration: 1890
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: St Olave Southwark (1837-1901)
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 275
but that sure didn't make her 2 in 1891, let alone 15 in 1901 ...
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But here is an extremely interesting coincidence:
Name: Lydia May Dumbleton
Year of Registration: 1887
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: St Saviour Southwark
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 23
Name: Rosina Maria Dumbleton
Year of Registration: 1883
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: St Olave Southwark (1837-1901)
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 316
Lydia May and Rosina M, born in the right place at vaguely the right time. (Rosina being way out from the 1891 entry, but who knows?)
I don't see either of those names in the 1891 or 1901 census, or marrying 1900-1910 or dying anytime.
I see an interesting Dumbleton household in 1891:
Name: Alfred J Dumbleton
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Ernest S
Gender: Male
Where born: Walworth, London, England
Civil Parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: Peckham
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Alfred J Dumbleton 12
Ernest H Dumbleton 15
Ernest S Dumbleton 38 - polisher's assistant - widowed
He's Alfred John Dumbleton in the 1901 census, and was born:
Name: Alfred John Dumbleton
Year of Registration: 1878
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: St Saviour Southwark
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 170
-- but I'm damned if I can find those people in the 1881. Or father Ernest in any other census, or being born or marrying or dying.
But this could be the death of his wife:
Name: Sarah Jane Dumbleton
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Year of Registration: 1891
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 37
District: St Saviour Southwark
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 21
Might the widowed Ernest Dumbleton have placed his young daughters with the Russells??
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This looks like Alfred John's marriage:
Name: Alfred John Dumbleton
Year of Registration: 1910
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Southwark(1901 Onw)
County: Greater London, London
Volume: 1d
Page: 21
It sure would be interesting to see whether he was an undertaker -- and maybe Caroline was actually his daughter, and the niece of Lydia and Rose ...
Aargh. Here they are in 1881 -- sans son Ernest:
Name: Alfred Dumbleton
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Edwin S.
Mother's Name: Sarah J.
Gender: Male
Where born: Newington, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 166 Lynton Rd
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St James Bermondsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 26b
Alfred Dumbleton 2
Edwin S. Dumbleton 28 - warehouseman unemployed
Sarah J. Dumbleton 28 - beader on leather
Name: Edwin Samuel Dumbleton + Sarah Jane Caunter
Year of Registration: 1875
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: St Saviour Southwark
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 180
Not finding any connection between the families ... and it's supper time! But that's my theory. ;)
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Ok then off to a good start !!!!
We have a birth 1890
We have Lydia in 1891 census age 2
We have Lydia in 1901 census age 15
(dates are a bit squiffy) ???
We have Lydia in marriages 1908 and
her middle name (May)
We also have the marriage of her father or uncle 1886 to Lydia Gregory.
That all sounds promising to me.
Rose we have in 1891 census.
Rose we have in 1901 census.
Her birth looks good for 1890 Stepney
and she's named Rosina !!!!!
I am going to get the Birth Certs as soon as I can for both of these and marrige certs if they look ok.
My mother insists neither of these were the mother of Caroline.
Your theory the (Dumbletons) is so interesting as to the closeness of all entries.
Im looking at it but keeping an open mind on it at the moment.
I will pass all findings on to be viewed by sis she has done quite a bit on the family
but never got far with Caroline and family.
Again Caroline and brothers still missing but this is coming together.
Thanks so much for your help.
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Hi Kathryn
Thanks for all your help so far.
Today I have received the marriage cert of Lydia May Russell
and of Rosina Martha Russell.
Also the Marriage of Alfred Joseph Russell. These are all correct as far as I know.
I also applied for the Birth cert of Lydia may Russell that had father Alfred was in the right county but wife Carla. I followed it on through the Censuses and it dosent tie up.
I am also following the line of Alfreds brothers and sisters but as yet still no Carroline !!!!
I think that the year 1897 for Caroline could be wrong. This year was calculated from her wedding cert and from hearsay she was 3 when her mother died. The father died shortly after. If her age was wrong on her wed cert by three years or more she may have missed the 1901 census.????
Please have you any other Suggestions
Regards John
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