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My great-grandmother was married twice. Her maiden name was Tope, she married a Pearse then married Edward John Knight. She had four children with both husbands. My grandfather was from the second marriage and his is the only BMD entry that I can find. He was born in 1902. I can't find his sister, born 1904 or 5 or his brother, born c1900. There was another sister born c1898.

I can't find any of the older siblings nor my great-grandmother or great-grandfather (Knight) on any census but they should appear on the 1901 in Devon. Any ideas please?

Have you found the marriage certificates/

Is this your grandad? What was mums first name and the name of the older siblings that should be with them?

Name: Edward John Knight
Year of Registration: 1902
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Devonport
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 308

Hi Heather

Yes that's my grandad. My great-grandmother was Emily. Unfortunately, I don't know when she married my great-grandfather (also called Edward John Knight). I'm not sure of her date of birth, but I've been looking around 1860/65 as I imagine she was in her 30s when she married my great-grandfather.

There should be George (1900), Florence (1904/5) and Beattie (1898) - could be Beatrice. I would expect to find the older two listed on the census but no joy.

this may be the first marriage:

Marriages Jun 1885
May James Stoke D. 5b 582
MURCH Eliza Stoke D. 5b 582
Pearce Richard Henry Stoke D. 5b 582
Tope Emily Stoke D. 5b 582

1891

Richard H Pearce
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Emily
Gender: Male
Where born: Pelynt, Cornwall, England

Civil Parish: Maker
Ecclesiastical parish: Maker
Town: Kingsand
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Registration district: St Germans
Sub-registration district: Antony
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Edwin C Pearce 5 b Rame
Emily Pearce 26 b Rame
Minnie E Pearce 4 b Rame
Richard H Pearce 28 Ag lab

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1806; Folio 56; Page 1; GSU roll: 6096916.

Andy

I think this is the same Emily in 1901 - unfortunately there are no names given for the children. Cannot tell if she is supposed to be married or widowed

Emily Pearce
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Rame, Cornwall, England

Civil Parish: Menheniot
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Registration district: Liskeard
Sub-registration district: Liskeard
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 16
Household Members: Name Age
Pearce 14 dau b Rame
Pearce 9 son b Maker
Pearce 7 dau b Maker
Emily Pearce 34 washing cleaning

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 2192; Folio: 6; Page: 3.

Andy

Wow Andy, thank you. There's a lot there to indicate it is my great-grandmother, although by 1901 I would expect my grandfather's full siblings to have appeared on the census. I'll have a proper look tomorrow.

I appreciate the help.

Carol

This may be the death of her first husband:

Deaths Dec 1899
Pearce Richard Henry 37 Liskeard 5c 37

re the 1901 census

I think it has W in the column .. it is slightly differently formed from the M shown for others.

The census taker did not write any names in for any of the children! Weird!!

There is no occupation shown for the eldest daughter (age 14), the other two children are shown as Scholars.


sylvia

I've now got a bit more info from my dad. I got the children from the second marriage completely back to front. My grandfather was first (1902), then Florence (1905), George (c1907) and finally, Beattie (c1909). That explains why I can't find any of them listed in the census. He also said that the first family were from Torpoint.

Sylvia, I think you're right. I would say that the 1901 census shows Emily as widowed. That would tie in with Richard dying in 1899. I think that the un-named 14-year-old is Minnie (see 1891). Edwin would have been 15 so probably working and therefore in a different household.

The problem is that my dad remembers the eldest of Emily's 8 children as being Edith. She was referred to as "Auntie Edie from Looe". Edith had a child (Violet) to a lodger while her husband was at sea and treated her badly so Violet spent a lot of time with Emily and her family. Florence was especially close to Violet.

The entry Brenda found is interesting. The census lists baby William as Rogers but on the original document, he is William Pearce - obviously Emily's son. However, as this Emily was born c1870, she might be too young. I found an Emily Pearce in the 1901 census with a 10-year-old William, married to a William and living in West Ham.

I'm therefore still confused! I should be able to find my great-grandfather listed in the 1901 census. That would then give me Emily's year of birth. As my grandfather was born in 1902 in Devonport, I would expect to find the family in that area.

Thanks for your help though.

Hi Carol,

One thing that struck me when I was looking at Knight/Pearce and Devonport/St Germans was the huge number of military families at both places. If Edward was Army/Navy, he may not be findable on the 1901 census - and the first of the second family is not born until 1902.

I'm not sure what Minnie is short for - there have been some threads on nicknames recently. Is Minnie Edie? Or is she Minnie E on the birth registration? Her age would just about fit to be 19 so that Violet is born at the same time as Florence?

Or was it that Florence being older, took a motherly interest in Violet? Would she be Violet Pearce born Devon/Cornwall approx 1905?

I see that Torpoint is on a peninsula in the Plymouth sound area, just oppposite Devonport; and that Maker is just a few miles (2 or 3 miles) further south.

If the Knight children are all Devonport births, then it may be a slightly different order?

Gladys Florence 1904 3rd q
Elsie Beatrice 1909 3rd q
George H 1911 1st q

No, Beattie is definitely the youngest and it's Florence May, who will be 103 this April.

I think the three Knight siblings are a possibility, I'll have a look tomorrow. I'm not sure about Edie because she was the eldest of the first four. It seems a bit of a push for Emily to have three more children after 1892 and be married to my great-grandfather and have my grandfather by 1902 - although it is theoretically possible I suppose.

What would really help is if a parent was listed when you find a birth registration.

Do you know how much a copy birth certificate costs through ancestry.co.uk?

Purchase birth certificates from

www.gro.gov.uk. They cost £7 if you have the reference.

Which is the reference?

I decided to risk the marriage certificate of Emily Tope & Richard Pearce. That will get me a year of birth for her which will make it easier to trace her through the census' (providing it's her!!)

It's very easy to get a bit consumed by this family tree business!

Thanks for the help so far.

This is a birth reference

Edith Emily Pearce
St Germans
December Quarter 1892
Volume 5c
Page 34

Thanks Pam. I thought it might be some sort of code number but as I went through the enquiry process I realised what the GRO was.