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I have come to a stumbling block with my nan's father. His name is Joseph Breen, and he died in 1954 at the age of 65, he was married to an Elizabeth Barton and they married in 1912 they had 6 children. Working back from the time he died he would have been born in 1889, my nan said his birthday is on 17 December. Now in the 1901 census I found a Joseph Breen who would have been 12 at the time which ties in nicely with his age of death. In 1901 he lived with his grandparents Peter Janees Breen and Jane Breen Peter and Jane had 3 children living with them, Edward, Mary Jane and Ellen Pauline they were a family of tailors except for Ellen who was a confectioner. Now this ties in nicely as my nan recalls her dad saying he lived with his grandparents who were tailors to the police. But I am now trying to find details on Josephs parents, my nan also recalls a Granny Burrell who took Joseph back off the grandparents, but she says thats a bit sketchy. Any info on Josephs parents would be great. The family is also linked to a big tobacco factory on Scotland Road. My nan also said when Joseph was little he would be taken over to formby to visit the breen family who had servants and were very posh! It's a big ask but any info would be great, as my nan is the last survivor Joseph and Elizabeth Breen.

Have you looked for a birth? It should be on freebmd...........

Also, his marriage cert should have his father's name on it..........

Have you looked for him in 1891?

If you want lookups done, you'll need to tell us where in the country these people were born and lived.............

Reg

Joseph was born in Liverpool, and in 1948 lived at 66 Montrovia Crescent Liverpool. If its the same Joseph he lived at 36 Guelph Street in 1901! I am new to this and have only being searching for the past week or so, and have already found out alot of info regarding the Barton side. Is it possible to get an online version of the marriage cert? Thanks for the advice

I tried looking for his birth but can't find a thing!

OK, Lisa...let's see what we can find out for you

Posting 1901 census info, for reference........

Name: Joseph Breen
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: West Derby St Mary the Virgin
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England


Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: West Derby, Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 51
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 52
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Breen 18
Ellen Pauline Breen 16
Jane Breen 54 b. Ireland
Joseph Breen 12
Mary Jane Breen 21
Peter Frances Breen 54 b. Ireland

Reg

1891.........for the grandparents etc

Name: Edward I Breen
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Peter
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool

Civil Parish: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: West Derby (Municipal)
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Breen 43
Edward I Breen 9
Ellen P Breen 6
Mary D Breen 12
Nicholas Breen 18 b. Ireland
Peter Breen 45
Peter E Breen 20 b. Ireland

Reg

This looks like Joseph's birth reg'n

Name: Joseph Breen
Year of Registration: 1889
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 263


BTW.........certs cannot be viewed online......they have to be bought. Cost £7.00 if ordered on line from the GRO

Reg

lol, I thought it said Janees lol, of course its Frances I just can't tread the fancy writing lol, thanks reg, will carry on digging about Joseph, thanks Reg

Marriage reg'n.........

Name: Joseph Breen
Year of Registration: 1912
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's Surname: Barton
District: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 931

Reg

HiLisa I have found the family you described on the 1901 census and also had a look around and found them on the 1891 and 1881 census as well. Unfortunately I am not sure who Joseph’s mother was but the following info will tell you more about the family

1901 Census

36 Guelph Street, West Derby, Liverpool, Lancashire

Peter Francis Breen, Head, Age 54, b 1847, Ireland, Tailor
Jane Breen Wife Age 54 b 1847 Ireland
Mary Jane Breen Daughter Age 21 b 1880 Liverpool, Lancashire, Tailor Machinist
Edward Breen Son Age 18 b 1883 Liverpool Lancashire, Tailor
Ellen Pauline Breen Daughter Age 16 b 1885 Liverpool Lancashire, Sweet Confectioner
Joseph Breen Grandson Age 12 b1889 Liverpool Lancashire

Also Found on BDM

Ann Breen Death registered June 1892 Age 43 West Derby 8b 398
Peter James Breen Married Jane McLoughlin Dec 1892 Birkenhead Cheshire 8a 893

So it looks like Peter’s first wife Ann died just after the 1891 Census and he remarried shortly afterwards to Jane who appears on the 1901 Census

1891 Census

29 Chapel Place, West Derby, St Mary of the Virgin Liverpool

Peter D Breen, Head Age 45 b 1846 Ireland Tailor’s Cutter
Ann Breen, Wife Age 43 b 1848 Ireland
Peter E Breen Son Age 20 b 1871 Ireland, Tailor
Nicholas Breen son Age 18 b 1873 Ireland Tailor
Mary D Breen Daughter Age 12 1879, Liverpool, Scholar
Ellen Breen Daughter Age 6 1885, Liverpool Scholar

Note

Entry on page above the family is for a Elizabeth Mary from a different family whose employment is listed as “Confectionary small sweets” and that may be how Ellen became involved in Confection by 1901 Census

1881 Census

111 Canterbury Street, Saint Annis, Liverpool, Lancashire

Peter Jas Breen Head Age 33 b 1848 Ireland Tailor
Anne Breen Wife Age 33 b 1848 Ireland Tailor’s wife
Peter E Breen Son Age 10 b 1871 Ireland Scholar
Nicholas Breen Son Age 8 b 1873 Ireland Scholar
Mary J Breen Age 2 b 1879 Liverpool Lancashire

Also on another 1901 census is a listing for a Peter Been who I think was the oldest son listed in the 1881 and 1891 census that by 1901 lives just down the street from his parents and Note what his occupation is as you mentioned Peter Senior was a tailor to the police.

1901 Census

39 Guelph Street, West Derby, St Mary of the Virgin, Liverpool

Peter Breen Head Age 30 b 1871 Ireland, Police Constable
Delia Breen Wife Age 28 b 1873 Ireland
Edward Been Son Age 2 Liverpool, Lancashire
Winifred Breen Daughter Age 1 Liverpool Lancashire
Mary Braniff Visitor Age 30 b 1871 Liverpool Lancashire

The following 1901 Census listing is I think the 2nd oldest son who is also no longer on the 1901 census with the family

1901 Census

73 Wennington Place, Southport, Lancashire

Nicholas E Breen Head Age 28 b 1873 Ireland Tailor Journeyman
Gertrude Breen Wife Age 24 b 1877 Brixton Derbyshire

Also found this:

Mary Jane Breen Married either James Herbert Jones or John Kenolty West Derby Registered June 1910 8b 713

I think this does look like Joseph’s family giving the details about occupations etc it would be a good idea to get a birth certificate for him and the most likely choice I could find was:

Joseph Breen Birth Registered March 1889 West Derby 8b 263
As I think that being a December baby he was born in 1888 not 1889 and then registered in the following quarter which would be March 1889. This is because you said that he died in 1954 aged 65 and unless the death occurred after December 17th then he still would have been 64 if he had been born in 1889.

Would love to here back on your thoughts on this

Mabel

Wow Mabel,
thank you, it all makes sense, I had a feeling in the end that Joseph was born Dec 1888! I have ordered a certificate today, so should have it by the weekend and will keep you informed . Thank you for your hard work. Lisa x

Yes he was 64 because my nan told me he never got chance to claim his pension!

Received Joseph's birth certificate this morning, his dad was Joseph Breen who was a Tailor Journeyman, and his wife was Elizabeth Ann Breen (maiden name Mahoney) They lived at 21 Field Street in 1889! Still need to figure out why he ended up living at his grandparents!

Look for possible deaths of his parents.......they will be on freebmd

Reg

His parent's marriage

>>Joseph Breen 1888 Jul-Aug-Sep Liverpool (1837-1934) Lancashire
View Record

Mary Ann Campbell 1888 Jul-Aug-Sep Liverpool (1837-1934) Lancashire


>>Elizabeth Ann Mahony 1888 Jul-Aug-Sep Liverpool (1837-1934) Lancashire

On the birth certificate in the when and where born it says 21 Field Street u.s.a. and in the name and address of mother it was 21 field street everton. How is this?

The 'S' in U.S.D. = Sanitation

Reg

Yes it may well be usd, so why is that put on birth certficates?
Fitzie, the address of the tobacco factory was 244,246,248 Scotland Road.

maybe he just didn't get on with his stepmother for some reason??



sylvia

If you're missing him in 1891 it could be because his mum remarried:

Marriages Mar 1891
Breen Elizabeth Ann W. Derby 8b 661
Burrell William W. Derby 8b 661

Rose