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Hello,
Would anyone with access to passenger lists be able to help me?

William Greenaway (1801) from Kilkhampton, Cornwall, emigrated to Canada in 1846. Apparently he was accompanied by at least three other adults and two children, all probably from the Kilkhampton area of Cornwall and possibly brothers/sisters.

The port of embarkation was possibly Plymouth, though this is uncertain.

I would be interested in any details which can be supplied, especially the names of the other members of the group; actual date of sailing; port of arrival and date; etc.

I thank you in anticipation.

Kindest regards,

Martyn

I don't know if this is one of yours .

Cornwall, England, Extracted Parish Records
about John William Elizabeth Greenaway
Text: John son of William & Elizabeth Greenaway 21 Mar 1802
Book: Baptisms
Collection: Cornwall: Kilkhampton - Register Booke of The Parrishe of Kilkehamptonie For Baptisinge, Weddinge and Burryeinge, 1539-1599 [Continues Thru 1839]

There is this

Canadian Immigrant Records, Part Two
about William Greenaway
Name: William Greenaway
Marital Status: Total party of 2 males, 2 females, 3 children and 2 'free'
Year of Record: 1846
Comments: Forwarded to Montreal per Steamer 'Lord Sydenham', May 22; destination friends in Port Hope; party consists of family members
Reference: Transcribed from (film of) original documents held in the collection of the National Archives of Canada [Ottawa]: MG 24 B 1, vol. 22, page 686, reel C-15773.
Source/Event: Destitute Emigrants forwarded to Montreal by Gov't Emigration office, Quebec, June to August 1846. Neilson Collection; returns and other records of the investigation into the conduct of James Allison, sometime Emigrant Agent at Montreal, 1823-1849.


and this


Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s
about William Greenaway
Name: William Greenaway
Year: 1846
Place: Montreal
Family Members: With family
Source Publication Code: 5994.30
Primary Immigrant: Greenaway, William
Annotation: Date and port of arrival. Extracted from the shipping books and registers of James Allison, a Montreal government emigrant agent, in the Neilson Collection at the National Archives of Canada, which are found in MG 24, B 1, volumes 21 and 22, microfilm ree
Source Bibliography: "NAMES OF EMIGRANTS from the 1845-1847 Records of James Allison, Emigrant Agent at Montreal." Ottawa, ON: Irish Research Group, Ottawa Branch, Ontario Genealogical Society, 1994. 112p.
Page: 34





Andy

For Martyn. ;)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1215250

He's trying to make the Reply button work, to thank posters, but to no avail so far. ;)


Martyn, you also need to go back to your other thread that I found when I searched --

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1210447

The other tip is - to find all your threads any time, click on "My threads" over on the left side.

Cornwall to Canada is one of my own ancestral trajectories, but luckily for me it was after 1900 and I have fewer problems. ;) Have you had any success finding your Greenaways in early Canadian censuses?

In 1851 and 1861 I don't see any William Greenaway-s (I searched for surname Gree*y to account for things like Greenway) with birthdates as early as yours.


edit -- doing a general search of historical records at ancestry.ca for William Gree*ay born 1801, there are records in the 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891 censuses in Ontario, all in Victoria South county; in 1881 there is also a WG with that birth year in Wellington Centre, Ontario. If that's him in 1891, he lived to a ripe old age! I don't pay for access to Cdn records any more, but those look worth looking at. You may know whether that's your man or not.

Interestingly, there are slightly younger John Greenway/Greenaway-s in both those locations in various censuses.

Hello Susan, Andrew, Jonesey and Janey Canuck,

Apologies for not replying before now, but, as Janey Canuck kindly informed you, I have had trouble making the system work.

However, I'm now up and running and would like to thank you all for your help.

Susan,
I have not, as yet, come across the John Greenaway you mentioned, but I will bear your response in mind as I work down the tree. The book from which you obtained this information looks as though it could be useful to me; do you know if it is readily available?

Andrew and Jonesey,

The information you have supplied is most interesting and helpful and certainly adds to my knowledge of William Greenaway's emigration. Could you advise as to whether the shipping details from which you quote are readily available, as I feel I may well be needing the information for other members of the Greenaway family.

Janey Canuck,

Many thanks again for notifying the others of my difficulties, it was most considerate of you.
I have only just stumbled across the emigration to Canada and have not checked the censuses. Are these readily available, too?
The records you have found look as though you have found 'my' William and I strongly suspect the John is his brother; he was born in 1806. I also suspect their brothers James and Thomas could also have emigrated, as I have found no trace of them on the English censuses.

Again, many thanks to you all,

Kindest regards,

Martyn

Aha! There is indeed a Thomas in the records. (Don't worry too much about spelling variations to start with; small differences still give you a working hypothesis to investigate.)

You can search the 1881 Canadian census at the Mormon site:

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp

You do want to do it yourself, but I'll give you the Thomas info for discussion here:


1881 household
Census Place Hope, Durham East, Ontario
Thomas GREENWAY Married English 60 England Farmer Methodist Canada
Levina E. GREENAWAY Married English 46 Ontario Methodist Canada
Seraphina GREENAWAY English 18 Ontario Methodist Canada


There is also a widowed Ann Greenway:

1881 census household
Census Place Howard, Bothwell, Ontario
Thomas GREENWAY English 30 England Farmer Church of England
James GREENWAY English 26 Ontario Farmer Church of England
Ann GREENWAY Widowed English 67 England Church of England
[Thomas would be her son]
Ann GREENWAY English 28 Ontario Church of England
Jane GREENWAY English 32 England Church of England


I know where Durham County is (it was a TV series, after all), but Bothwell, I need a map.


Those were on a search for GREENWAY born 1801 +/- 20 years.

On a search for GREENAWAY with those dates, this is the list:

1. William GREENAWAY - 1881 Canadian Census / Ontario
Gender: Male Birth: England
2. Richd. GREENAWAY - 1881 Canadian Census / Ontario
Gender: Male Birth: 1808 England
3. Thomas GREENHAW - 1881 Canadian Census / Ontario
Gender: Male Birth: 1808 England
4. James GREENAWAY - 1881 Canadian Census / Ontario
Gender: Male Birth: 1810 England
5. John GREENAWAY - 1881 Canadian Census / Ontario
Gender: Male Birth: 1816 England
6. William GREENAWAY - 1881 Canadian Census / Ontario
Gender: Male Birth: 1819 England
7. Mariah GREENAWAY - 1881 Canadian Census / Ontario
Gender: Female Birth: 1819 England
[wife of William 1801]


Are you a descendant in Canada (as I am), or descended from another family member in England?

The early censuses are available at www.ancestry.ca -- you can take out a 14-day free trial to have a look around. It's also cheap by the month: $6.95, I think. You can search without paying, but will see things like "date" instead of the actual date, and won't be able to look at records and images to see household composition, occupation, etc.

You're welcome for the note; just happened to see your plea on the General board and thought I'd help you out while you dithered. ;)

Good evening, JaneyCanuk,

Many thanks for the wealth of information you have sent, I will certainly be well employed checking out all that information; the web links will prove invaluable, I'm sure.

Interestingly, I have only this weekend purchased an Ancestors UK package, but have yet to load it onto my computer. I wasn't aware it had Passenger Lists on it when I bought it!

No, I am not a Canadian - I'm not sure whether I could survive in your winters! - but hail from Northamptonshire in England. I am very proud of my Cornish and Devonian lineage and have, over the past year or so, concentrated on the Greenaway side of my family. I was intrigued that in Kilkhampton, where the family had lived since the sixteenth century, and probably earlier, the family started 'dying out' from the mid nineteenth century. Initially I found that nephews and neices of my 4xGt Grandmother emigrated to Australia, becoming 'First Families' in what is now Melbourne, Australia. Now I have started on the same lady's cousins and have found they emigrated to Canada. It is hardly surprising there are no Greenaways left in that villge in Cornwall - but it certainly makes the family history exciting and I have cotrresponded with some lovely and helpful people.

Again, I thank you for all your help.

Kindest regards,

Martyn

So you're looking for descendants in Canada?

Greenaway seemed a bit of an uncommon name, so I checked at

www.whitepages.ca

and found I was wrong. Over 100 listings in Ontario alone - not many over, though, as that goes up to an initial "Y". ;) Ah, I tried for the name in Bothwell, Ontario, and I get results in London, Ontario ... where I was born and grew up. Thought it sounded vaguely familiar ... one of the tiny places in farm country around there. Ha, google says:

"10 Jun 2009 ... Bothwell is a friendly and beautiful rural community with a population of 1000 that is situated in the heart of Southwestern Ontario"

People in southwestern Ontario are very mobile -- none of me and my siblings live there anymore -- so your Greenaways could have migrated anywhere.

If you do decide to spend some time at ancestry.ca, you can add notes to any of the records you like -- birth, marriage, death, census.

You can give a little info about the person's origin and include your email address. (I always strongly recommend getting one at www.gmail.com that does not give away your identity, something like martyn.familyhistory at gmail.com -- that account is free, online and forever, so you never have to worry about not getting messages if you change your "real" email address.)

Just correct a spelling (like Greenway to Greenaway) or put a variant of the given name (like Thos for Thomas or Jas for James) and put your info in the explanation section.

That way, if descendants in Canada are tracing their history ever, they will see your info and have a way of contacting you. I've had several very fruitful contacts with distant cousins via corrections I've made at ancestry.co.uk -- and was even contacted by a grx3 granddaughter of my gr-grmother's sister here in Canada via ancestry.ca, via notes I'd made to our mutual ancestors in the 1911 census there.

You could do all that with a 14-day free trial, as long as you had yourself organized and set aside the time, or with a one-month subscription, for example.

Because of privacy legislation in Canada, there is no public access to birth registrations in the last hundred years, e.g., so you have no hope of tracing descendants forward that way. You could always try a mass mail to the 100 Greenaways in phone book. ;)

My mum's father's family is from Cornwall -- but my dad's mother's is from Northamptonshire! Wellingborough area, perchance? ;)

Have fun!

Would this be a marriage of Thomas son of Thomas?

007547-80 (Durham Co) Thomas GREENAWAY, 25, farmer, Canada, Hope Twp, s/o Thomas & Agnes GREENAWAY, married Mary Angeline BROWN, 24, Canada, Hope Twp, d/o Joseph & Mary Ann BROWN, witn William ANDREWS & Julia GREENAWAY both of Hope Twp, 13 Oct 1879 at Port Hope

Is this one of yours?

006276-75 (Durham Co.) Thomas Knight GREENAWAY, 52, farmer, widower, Cornwall England, Tp. Hope, s/o William & Cecilia GREENAWAY, married Livinia Eliza BRAND, 41, Tp. Clarke, Tp. Hope, d/o Jonathan & Amelia BRAND, witn; Miriam Annette TINDAL of Tp. Hope and Emma BROD of Port Hope, 7 sep 7 1875 at Port Hope

And this would be Margaret's Thomas Jr in 1881:

Census Place Hope, Durham East, Ontario
Thomas J. GREENAWAY English 26 Ontario F. Labourer Methodist Canada
Mary A. GREENAWAY English 25 Ontario Methodist Canada
Mary A. G. GREENAWAY English Born: Oct; 6/12 Ontario Methodist Canada

in the same location as the older Thomas whose details I posted earlier.


edit -- and that death is the death of that older Thomas:

1881 household
Census Place Hope, Durham East, Ontario
Thomas GREENWAY Married English 60 England Farmer Methodist Canada
Levina E. GREENAWAY Married English 46 Ontario Methodist Canada
Seraphina GREENAWAY English 18 Ontario Methodist Canada

IGI


Results for: British Isles
Father: William Greenaway
Mother: Cecilia

1. WILLIAM GREENAWAY 25 JAN 1818 Saint Gennys, Cornwall, England
>> 2. THOMAS KNIGHT GREENAWAY 26 SEP 1819 Poundstock, Cornwall, England
3. NATHANIEL JACOBS GREENAWAY 30 JUN 1822 Poundstock, Cornwall, England
4. JACOB JACOBS GREENAWAY 27 MAY 1832 Poundstock, Cornwall, England
5. MARY ANN GREENAWAY 29 OCT 1826 Poundstock, Cornwall, England
6. PHILIPPA JACOBS GREENAWAY 08 FEB 1835 Poundstock, Cornwall, England
7. ESAIAS GREENAWAY 03 JUL 1842 Poundstock, Cornwall, England
8. BETSEY GREENAWAY26 JUL 1829 Poundstock, Cornwall, England


Looks like maybe two sets of Greenaways?


Yup -- this is our William Greenaway:

WILLIAM GREENAWAY
Christening: 22 MAR 1801 Kilkhampton, Cornwall, England
Father: RICHARD GREENAWAY
Mother: DAMARIS
Batch No.: P007171


How annoying of them.


So here's the list of William and his siblings:


Results for: Greenaway, British Isles
Father: Richard
Mother: Damaris
Batch Number: P007171

1. WILLIAM GREENAWAY 22 MAR 1801 Kilkhampton, Cornwall, England
2. WILLIAM GREENAWAY 23 SEP 1816 Kilkhampton, Cornwall, England
3. ANN GREENAWAY 20 MAR 1814 Kilkhampton, Cornwall, England
4. JAMES GREENAWAY 11 AUG 1811 Kilkhampton, Cornwall, England
5. MARY GREENAWAY 20 MAR 1814 Kilkhampton, Cornwall, England
6. THOMAS GREENAWAY 05 MAR 1809 Kilkhampton, Cornwall, England
7. JOHN GREENAWAY 26 FEB 1806 Kilkhampton, Cornwall, England
and I suspect this one, with parents Rd and Dice:
RD. GREENAWAY 09 AUG 1795 Kilkhampton, Cornwall, England

RICHARD GREENAWAY
Marriages:
Spouse: DAMARIS BARRETT
Marriage: 25 MAR 1795 Kilkhampton, Cornwall, England
Batch No.: M007171


Odd, the two Williams. It suggests the 1801 William died, and Martyn's William is really the 1816 William -- which would give better matches in the Cdn records maybe. Well, except it makes him almost identical in age to the other one.

I suspect that the whole batch in Hope Tshp is the other batch, the ones from Poundstock.

Yes -- in 1861, Cesilia Greenaway (who certainly looks like the mother), born in 1799, is in Durham county. However there are a Thomas 1819 and Jacob 1831, e.g., to match the children of William and Cecilia of Poundstock, in Northumberland county.

Back to drawing board.

Good evening, Janey Canuck and MargaretMorrison,

Thank you so very much for all the information you have uncovered on the Greenaways. It is going to take me a while to sort it out - a shame work interferes!

I know from my Australian(!) 5th cousin, that William Greenaway and his family unit settled in Port Hope, Ontario; is this the same place as Hope Township? (possibly in the SW of Ontario, but I haven't a decent map of Canada, yet.) The information came from a book called 'Great Circles - the Keith Greenaway Story', which, was published in Canada, but, unfortunately, doesn't appear to be readily available in the UK. Somehow, though, my Australian contact has a copy,! (the Dominions conspiring against the Motherland?) Keith Greenaway was/is the Great Grandson of William Greenaway

You have both identified the problem with the Cornish Greenaways; they are all over the county. The main centres appear to be Kilkhampton, Poundstock and St Breward. These villages are relatively close to each other, but the families seem to be definitely distinct from each other.

The other point you identified, JaneyCanuck, is the two Williams in the family. I queried this with the Kilkhampton On-line Parish Clerk (who, coincidentally, also lives in Ontario) and who transcribed the church records. She told me that it was something she had come across several times before; apparently, when the elder son left home his name was passed to the next born male! (Out of sight, out of mind, springs to mind!) So, the William, born 1801, son of Richard and Damaris, was the one who emigrated to Canada in 1846, aged 45.

Doesn't family history get confusing at times?

I'm now off to thoroughly study all the fruits of all your efforts.

Again, many thanks to you all.

Kindest regards,

Martyn

And here's the family in 1841 in Kilkhampton:

Richard Greenaway 70
Damras Greenaway 60
Rd GreenawayJunr 40
James Greenaway 25
Samuel Greenaway 20
Ann Greenaway 20
Richd Greenaway 8

So that Richard son of Rd and "Dice" was indeed one of them.


In the same place same year:

Thos Greenaway 30
Susanna Greenaway 25

No John or William to match.


In the same registration district (Stratton), though:

John Greenaway 30
Betsy Greenaway 30
Elizabeth Greenaway 9
Mary Greenaway 1

and

Name: William Greenway
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1801
Where born: Cornwall, England
Civil parish: Launcells
(apparently unmarried)


although there are certainly other Greenaway-s in Launcells.


It's just that having the names of wives and children could be really useful for finding them in Canada.

-- for instance -- John Greenaway 1820 and Betsy Greenaway 1821 are in Durham County in 1861 (as is Cesilia Greenaway 1799) -- although they seem too young to be the John and Betsy in Cornwall in 1841, and he's more likely to be John son of William and Cecilia of Poundstock.


Port Hope and Hope Township are the same general thing -- look for Port Hope at google maps. If they owned real estate there, I hope they hung onto it. ;) It's on the outskirts of commuting distance of Toronto and is prime property now. It's 100 km ish east of Toronto along the north shore of Lake Ontario.

Oh look.

http://www.nhb.com/hunter/page.htm

"Send us an e-mail with your name, e-mail address, location and a brief description of the local surnames you're researching, and we'll list it here. Maybe you'll get lucky! If so, please let us know!
Note: We are building a local family history section at the Port Hope Public Library and we'll be most pleased to receive any published information you might have on your lineage. Hard copy material will go onto the shelves and electronic files will be entered into the computer resources. We hope to hear from YOU!"

Greenaway is in the list. Someone (there's an email address) in Oshawa (very close to Port Hope) is "Looking for the surnames WOOD, ANDREWS, MOFFATT, JACOBS, GREENAWAY, McNALL".

The website is maintained by a couple in Port Hope.
http://www.nhb.com/hunter/


Go to www.google.ca and select "pages from Canada" and search for

"greenaway" "port hope"

and there are 557 results. They include census entries. (Put greenaway in quotation marks because otherwise google will find you 14,000 results about greenways.)

If you use these search terms specifically:

site:www.nhb.com "greenaway" "port hope"

you'll get all the Greenaway results at the Port Hope couple's website.


I think this might keep you busy for a while. ;)

Only problem is that the Port Hope Greenaways look so much like the *other* ones, the ones from Poundstock -- but you might be able to sort that out with the Port Hope info.

Hello JaneyCanuk

Wow! that is one heap of work you have done for me! I am really grateful to you.

I understand that William Greenaway bought a farm in, or near, Port Hope, which his son eventually ran; I do not know when, or if, they sold up and benefited financially! Perhaps it is in the book I mentioned previously.

The web links you have supplied look as though they are going to be very interesting and I will definitely give them a spin. I am going to have a really busy time over the next few days!

I have checked out the Canadian !881 census - it has thrown up more details on William and his family, but the Thomas you found is not his brother - the birth dates do not tally. I have yet to check his other brothers and sisters to see if it is any of them. I know it will not be his brother, James, as I have found him and his wife on the English censuses from 1851 through to 1891!

Well, as I've said, thanks to you, especially, and the other posters, I now have plenty to work on - more than I ever anticipated when I initially posted! I will keep you posted as to the results on this thread, unless you would prefer me to use your pm..

Thank you very much,

Martyn

Post in the thread, always post in the thread!

Whenever anybody who has posted in it clicks our "My threads" link, we see that there is something new. And don't have to scratch our heads about what a PM relates to and go hunting for the thread. ;)

Have fun!

Hello JaneyCanuck

Will do - on both counts!

Enjoy the weekend.

Kindest regards,

Martyn

Evidently the book is still available in Canada, Martyn.

Join us for the Thursday, 26 March 2009 meeting of the Ottawa Chapter of the Canadian Aviation Historical Society. That night Kathy Bergquist will share details from her new biography, Great Circles: The Keith Greenaway Story. In this, Kathy traces the full life story of Keith Greenaway; from wartime enlistment through post-war service as a respected expert and innovator in Arctic air navigation to recent time. Copies of Great Circles: The Keith Greenaway Story will be available for purchase that evening at a Special CAHS Ottawa Chapter Price. For details about the evening, see the attached Meeting Notice below.

As always, visitors and guests are most welcome.

Timothy Dubé
Chairman, Ottawa Chapter
Canadian Aviation Historical Society

MM didn't post URL: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~onvsr/

For S Ontario, to see where Clarke/Hope Twp's are, click on Durham Co at:
http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/countyatlas/SearchMapframes.php
The remaining 90% of the province is N Ontario - their version of the North begins at Watford

There are some land records (homestead claims) for this twp:

Full record for Greeneway, Thomas
Last Name Greeneway
First Name Thomas
Township Hope
County Durham
Atlas Date 1878
Concession and Lot Lot size
II, 2 64

Full record for Greeneway, Thomas
Last Name Greeneway
First Name Thomas
Town Dale
Township Hope
County Durham
Atlas Date 1878

Last Name Greenaway
First Name N.
Township Hope
County Durham
Atlas Date 1878
Concession and Lot Lot size
III, 13 ?
III, 14 117

Last Name Greeneway
First Name N.
Township Hope
County Durham
Atlas Date 1878
Concession and Lot Lot size
IV, 27 50

To locate an Ontario rural address, i.e., Concession and Lot, one really needs a Twp map. Unlike the prairies, there isn't really a uniform land survey system. Ontario was in a race against time after the war of 1812-14 to get Ontario settled as a buffer against another US invasion, so each area was opened up to settlement as soon as it was surveyed (earlier sometimes, but that naturally caused later disputes).
The lot boundaries are remarkably persistent, and can usually be recognized on a modern satellite image.

To illustrate census searches, lets look Jacob - at one of the Poundstock mob.
Start at: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/genealogy/index-e.html

and drill down to the census links page:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/genealogy/022-911.009-e.html


1881 The LAC link:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e328/e008178004.pdf

1891 The LAC link:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1891/pdf/30953_148134-00186.pdf

For 1851, 1901, 1906, 1911 look up on AG, and note the location header, then look that up on LAC:

1901 Census of Canada Page Information
District: ON DURHAM (East/Est) (#55)
Subdistrict: Hope B-1 Page 2
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z002/z000057673.pdf
From above sched 1, note Page 2 Line 44, then locate sched 2 (the house's sched)
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z002/z000057669.pdf
[Con 1 Lot 2]

1911 Census of Canada
Home / 1911 / Ontario / Durham / 49 Port Hope / page 15 [& 16]
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e001983398.pdf
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e001983399.pdf

1916 only avail on Ancestry
[1906, 1916 don't cover Ontario]


1861 look up on Ancestry first, mostly so we know he's present, and his county:
Jacob Greenaway township, Northumberland, Canada West 1831 location
Jacob Greenaway township, Northumberland, Canada West
[The second hit is the agricultural schedule]

Now look him up on the LDS link:
Name: Jacob Greenaway
Gender: Male
Census place: Hamilton, Northumberland, Ontario
Age: 30y
Estimated birth year: 1831
Birthplace: England
Marital status: Married
Religion: W M
Sheet number: 96
Line number: 33
Film number: 2435929
Library and Archives Canada film number: C-1055-1056
Digital GS number: 4391947
Image number: 00521
Collection: Ontario Census 1861

then look up all Greenways in Ontario - specifying the county sometimes confuses the search, but all the hits we want are in Hamilton, Northumberland, Ontario.

1861
Jacob Greenaway 30 England
Mary Greenaway 30 U Canada
William Greenaway 3 U Canada
Pauline Greenaway 2 U Canada

There's also a Mary J Greenaway 16 U Canada on line 14 of same page - no idea who she is.

1871 is quite similar, and 1851 is like 1911 (except each census with its multiple schedules spans 4 pages = 3 images, but usually the last page is blank).
(Although Jacob's y.o.immig was left blank in 1901, it reads 1857 in 1911, so we shouldn't find him in 1851 in Canada).

1906 is like 1911, and 1916 is only available on Ancestry - both these censuses only cover the 3 prairie provinces (AB, SK, MB).