Genealogy Chat

Thanks to Richard and Jim I will look into what you have both said, and sorry Richard I know about Ancestry, just getting a little carried away chris

Just for the record - Alice's first marriage. Marriages Sep 1881 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ==>BUDGE Alice Keighley 9a 251 LAMBERT Elizabeth Keighley 9a 251 ==>LUCAS Frank Keighley 9a 251 WILSON Thomas Keighley 9a 251 Jim

Christine - you can't get original birth certs (copies or otherwise) on Ancestry - what you get on there is the index only, which doesn't give you all the info that you get on a birth cert. What you need to do is use the ref numbers from the index to order at least one of the children's births - this will confirm whether Alice was married before or not as it will say ''... late Lucas, formerly Budge'' if she was. It won't tell you whether Alfred was married previously or not though - but at least will confirm whether you're seeeking a Penny/Budge or a Penny/Lucas marriage! Cheers, Richard

I have to go to work now but a BIG thank you for all your help, will check back later Chris

Hi Richard Do not have any hard copies of birth cert, but have seen original copies on Ancestry chris

Do you have a birth cert of one of the kids born after 1891? If so, what does it have for mother's name? (eg ''Alice Penny, late Lucas, formerly Budge''?)...

and this looks like his father's death: Deaths Jun 1886 Lucas Frank 39 Swansea 11a 476

Well Frank was a Lucas according to the 1891 - therefore, a son of Frank & Alice - not Alfred & Alice. Here's his birth reg: Births Jun 1886 Lucas Frank Swansea 11a 817

the names of the kids that i got for Alfred and Alice are Frank b.1883 Samuel b 1892 Sarah b 1895 William b 1897 Emma b 1900 Susan b. 1902 John b. 1904 All born in S.Wales expect last 3 which were born in Houghton le Spring Durham

The John family are living next door to the Pennys in 1881.

Beat me to it, Tracy! Christine - this explains why you hadn't found the 1871-census children in the later census - maybe Alice & Frank's kids stayed with her & Alfred, whilst Alfred & Johanna's kids went to live with their grandparents...

in 1891, Alfred & Johanna's children are with her parents: Name: Leyshon Perry Age: 15 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876 Relation: Grandson Gender: Male Where Born: Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales Civil parish: Higher Llangynwyd Ecclesiastical parish: Llangynwyd Town: Maes teg (Maestag) County/Island: Glamorgan Country: Wales Street address: View image Condition as to marriage: View image Education: View image Employment status: View image Occupation: View image Registration district: Bridgend Sub registration district: Maesteg ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Joanna John 14 Martha John 74 Mary Ann John 34 Thomas John 29 Mary Jane Penny 13 Morgan Penny 6 Robert Penny 9 Thomas Penny 6 Leyshon Perry 15

The Penny children in 1891... Martha John abt 1817 Coytrahene, Glamorgan, Wales Head Higher Llangynwyd Glamorgan Mary Ann John abt 1857 Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Higher Llangynwyd Glamorgan Thomas John abt 1862 Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales Son Higher Llangynwyd Glamorgan Joanna John abt 1877 Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Higher Llangynwyd Glamorgan Leyshon Perry abt 1876 Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales Grandson Higher Llangynwyd Glamorgan Mary Jane Penny abt 1878 Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales Granddaughter Higher Llangynwyd Glamorgan Robert Penny abt 1882 Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales Grandson Higher Llangynwyd Glamorgan Morgan Penny abt 1885 Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales Grandson Higher Llangynwyd Glamorgan Thomas Penny abt 1885 Maesteg, Glamorgan, Wales Grandson Higher Llangynwyd Glamorgan A few more than I expected lol I wonder if Joanna died in childbirth...

Christine - it is spelt Renny on the Ancestry index, but when you look at the image you can see that it's actually Penny. Richard

Every one keeps putting Renny instead of Penny is this a spelling mistake or a completly diffirent person? chris

Jim, I think it must've been Frank Lucas. He's living with them in 1881.

sorry i'v just been told to press reply(i am new to this) just to say that alfred married to someone else the kids dont fit with what i'v got and i didn;t know people would say they were married to someone when they are not, totally confused now chris

In 1881, Alice is in Keighley, Yorkshire and marries there in Sep quarter 1881 - but not to Alfred.

I wonder if he didn't marry Alice, just pretended he was...

Marriages Dec 1875 JOHN Joanna Bridgend 11a 813 NICHOLAS Maria Bridgend 11a 813 PENNY Alfred William Bridgend 11a 813 REES Thomas Bridgend 11a 813