Genealogy Chat

Hi all, I have probally been driving every one mad on here with my search for Abraham Sparrow Preston Born 1867 in Woverhampton, Staffs. I have now just recieved his Birth cert.. to find his Father is not on his cert. His mothers name was Elizabeth Preston. How can i find out who his father was and how can i find more about his mother. His name on his Birth cert was Abraham Sparrow. Please help... Julie x

seance is probably you're only answer LOLOLOL!!!!!!!! Seriously, it will probably be quite difficult, the baptism register might show a father or if there is a bastardy bond that should state the father, but you will probably not find it easily. regards Looby

Sometimes it is hard to find out more about a father when there is no name on the certificate. Sometimes the local records office might be a place to go to see if he was baptised - as sometimes baptisms of illegitimate children gave the name of both parents. The name Sparrow could well be his fathers surname. Have you found his mother on the censuses living with anyone with the surname Sparrow - or could his mother have married someone later in life called Sparrow and he just took on that surname later on? Sometimes you can be lucky and find in local records something called 'Bastardy Bonds' where fathers of illegitimate children were tracked down and ordered to pay a kind of maintenance - as then the parish weren't responsible for having to give the mother any money. If you need help locating his mother on the censuses, just send me a message with the details and I will search for you. Alex

have you found a marriage for his mum? Was his mums maiden name Sparrow and who she married was preston and he was not his father but he took on his name. if fathers name isn't on cert you have a dead end i'm afraid

Hi Julie, this is going to be a tricky one, because if father's name is not given on the birth certificate then sometimes there is no way to find out who the father was. I can't remember if you already have Abraham's marriage certificate? And if so, does it say his father's name on there? (Though sometimes if somebody was illegitimate they would make up a father's name for their marriage certificate or give their step-father's name, but sometimes it will say their real father's name.) As for Abraham's mother Elizabeth, again, I can't remember if you have Elizabeth and Abraham together on any censuses? That would be a place to start to get info about her. Abraham's name might well be a clue to his father's name - very likely his father's surname was Sparrow, and possibly his father's first name was Abraham. Kate.

found him with wife 1901 Abraham Preston Age: 34 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Susannah Gender: Male Where born: Wolaerhanpton, Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Milton Ecclesiastical parish: Milton County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Wolstanton Sub-registration district: Burslem ED, institution, or vessel: 33 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 227 Household Members: Name Age Abraham Preston 34 Ann E Preston 1 John W Preston 3 Joseph Preston 8 Oliver A Preston 7 Percy Preston 5 Susannah Preston 32 Abraham Sparrow Preston Year of Registration: 1891 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: Newcastle Under Lyme County: Staffordshire Volume: 6b Page: 89 (click to see others on page Susannah Sergeant

Do you have a possible age for Elizabeth?

Thanks everyone, just had a look on 1871 census, but don't know where to start. I don't have marriage cert as yet for Abraham. I know he married Susannah Sergant in 1891 in Newcastle under Lyme. do you think he would have continued living with his mother in those days? All i have on his mother is her name, i have no idea where she was born and have thought of the possibility that she may not have been from wolverhampton. what are barstardy bonds?Do i just google? Julie

Well as I said, Bastardy Bonds were kind of like child support back then. The parish was always reluctant to dole out parish relief to unwed mothers and so always tried to track down the fathers - mainly they would try and get his name out of the mother in any way they could - some woman in the early 1800's were even whipped in the street while pregnant - forced to admit the name of the father. They would then set up a regular or one off payment to the mother from the father and so there would be a kind of ledger book kept to record this. You would normally find these at the local records office that covers that particular area. You can google for the local records office and check their website or email them to ask if they hold any records of bastardy bonds for Wolverhampton covering the time period you are interested in. I searched for him in the censuses before 1901 and couldn't find him under Preston or Sparrow, so unless his mother married and he went under his stepfathers surname all the way up until his marriage, its a bit hard to know. (I've had some people in my tree who did this, just to make things extra difficult!) What was the address for place of birth on the certificate? Alex

Julie, if I were you then the next thing I would do is order Abraham's marriage certificate and see what information that gives you. Kate.

possibility for 1881 - Name: Abraham Morgan Age: 14 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867 Relation: Son Mother's name: Elizabeth Gender: Male Where Born: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Wolverhampton County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street address: 11 Courts Gt Brick Kiln St Occupation: Shoe Maker Registration district: Wolverhampton Sub registration district: Wolverhampton Western ED, institution, or vessel: 24 Abraham Morgan 14 Elizabeth Morgan 53 - born Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England, Widower, Stay Maker

Oh I looked at that Abraham Morgan in 1871 - his parents are John and Elizabeth - John was an old boy then in his 60s - I found a marriage between a John Morgan and an Elizabeth Groom in 1865 so I dont think this is the right family. Alex

Unfortunatly that's the only Abraham from Wolves born 1867+/-2 years with mother Elizabeth I came across on 1881 however there is only one Elizabeth Preston born in wolves on 1861 census - but i don't have full access Elizabeth Preston abt 1849 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England relation Wolverhampton Staffordshire and this one is just living there Elizabeth Preston abt 1847 location, Staffordshire, England relation Wolverhampton Staffordshire

Elizabeth Preston Age: 14 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Wednesfield, Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Wolverhampton Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Wolverhampton Sub-registration district: Wolverhampton Western ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 8 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Preston 14 Blanche Smith 74 Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 1988; Folio: 79; Page: 2; GSU roll: 542898. Elizabeth Preston Age: 12 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849 Relation: Daughter Father's name: George Mother's name: Mary Ann Gender: Female Where born: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Wolverhampton Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Wolverhampton Sub-registration district: Wolverhampton Western ED, institution, or vessel: 26 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 159 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Preston 12 George Preston 45 - Coal dealer b. Shiffnal Salop. George Preston 10 Henry Preston 8 James Preston 4 Mary Ann Preston 34 Robert Preston 14 William Preston 2 Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 1990; Folio: 47; Page: 30; GSU roll: 542899.

And this is the one born 1847c in 1851 with her family Elizabeth Preston Age: 4 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847 Relation: Daughter Father's name: John Mother's name: Patience Gender: Female Where born: Wednesfield, Shropshire, England Civil parish: Wednesfield County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Wolverhampton Sub-registration district: Willenhall ED, institution, or vessel: 1e Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 111 Household Members: Name Age Catherine Preston 1 Edward Preston 1 Elizabeth Preston 4 Harriett Preston 9 John Preston 43 - Keymaker? b. Wednesfield John Preston 14 Patience Preston 47 Sarah Preston 16 Thomas Preston 6 Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2020; Folio: 103; Page: 31; GSU roll: 87424.

Abraham is on the 1901 census. His birth cert address states 164 baker or barker street.Wolverhampton Eastern in the County of Stafford. i have just noticed that it also has a name entered after registration... which i cant quite work out. also name of informant is Sarah Gutteridge occupies barker street. Any ideas? Julie

When you say it has a name entered after registration - do you mean that the 'Sparrow' was added after registration or another name? Alex

I think Sarah Gutteridge will be down as 'occupier' rather than 'occupies'. It means that she was the owner or tenant of the house where the birth took place, and if the baby's mother was unable or unwilling to register the birth, the 'occupier' of the premises would do it instead. As for name added after registration, it makes sense if the mother didn't register the birth herself; maybe when Sarah got back Elizabeth said, 'But he was supposed to be have Sparrow as a middle name!' or whatever, and she went and got it added? Kate.

In 1871 there is a 3 year old Abraham born Wolverhampton, with mother Elizabeth in this household: Census place Brieryhurst, Kidsgrove district,Staffordshire address 1a Westley St John Carrington Head M 27 Labourer born Wolverhampton Elizabeth Carrington Wife M 22 born Wolverhampton Abraham Carrington son 3 Scholar born Wolverhampton Susan Carrington Daur 1 born Wolverhampton To match this family there is a marriage for John Carrington in Q2 1868 Wolverhampton 6b 601 Elizabeth Preston is on the same page:-)

i have checked the birt cert again, i made a mistake it was the registrar's signature, not name entered after registration. Abraham was recorded as marrying in the name of sparrow preston, so i don't know if he would have used the name carrington. I am proper swearing at my ancestors at the moment nothing is ever simple with my family lol. Julie