General Chat

hmm a wall around Westminster perhaps? but seriously why would we not want to be united?and hope you're not proposing a north v south debate Janet?

Robert ..... you glory seeker you ;-) :-)

Agree Eldrick.....BNP no way....beore we know it there'll be a call for 'United Geordies'...oh we have one already NUFC ;-)

Its just brought an interesting idea to mind. Would they want their own king again? I dont like the ring of King Alex - the house of Salmon...? A bit too John West for my liking.

The more intriguing option is the current Duke of Buccleuch, the 345th richest man in the UK and probably the richest or near the top in Scotland. King RIchard would be a direct descendant of Charles II, therefore a Stuart - more English than the current monarch. It could provoke a constitutional crisis as there would be a legitimate claim to the English throne, which if it succeeded would mean we would all be Scottish and get free prescriptions!

Bring it on!

Or a Queen? ....Nicola from the Sturgeon line perhaps?.... :-D

DOES MEAN we will be rebuilding the hardian wall

Well, firstly, I think the woman from the Midlands that has those opinions, needs her bumps feeling.
I suppose people reading this will think I cannot give a totally unbiased view, on this. You see, I have a foot in both camps, having been bought up there, and having a brother born there, though we are English.
So I feel love and pride for the country of my childhood, and a loving affinity for all thing Scottish, except Alex Salmond, who has been waiting this moment for decades.
But I do agree with the others who have posted, in that, if they want independence from England, they have to take 'both bites of the cherry'. If they are keeping their 'good' they also have to accept the 'bad also. I am talking fiscally here.
While we are discussing this, who are 'they' that want this independance. Is it only the politicians, the nationalists, or is it Rory McDuff, the man on the street. Has anyone asked them, let alone put it to a referendum.
And, as, I think it was Eldrick who said it, but not sure, what about another 'Irish Question' which rocked the British Costitutional Policy of the British governemnt, in the early 19th century. Many Northern Irish are of Scottish decent.
So, not an easy one for anyone, as first appears on paper.Will Cameron phillibuster Salmond. Will Salmond procrastinate against Cameron, who might or might not be in power in the proposed 2014, handover. And, what of the constitution. Scotland will have to have one of its own. And the military. There are many Englishmen in Highland Regiments, and vice versa. What would happen if England was called to war. Would it have to apply to the Scottish government for extra troops. On the other hand, would Scotland want to ressurect the Auld Alliance with France. Gawd help us if they do. Don't trust that Sarkosy, as far as I could throw him, and on a political front, he is our 'enemy at the moment.
No, not as easy as it seems, is this one. A long, long way to go.

Julia in Derbyshire

Before reading the rest of the thread, in part I do agree, if Scotland wants independence, then surely they have the right to have it, as do Wales and Northern Ireland (though the complications from that don't bear thinking about). There definitely should be a referendum, but that referendum should not just be in Scotland. Scottish independence will have an enormous impact on England and the rest of the UK too, both good and bad, so that referendum should come from Westminster rather than the Scottish Parliament, and include all UK countries.

Personally, I would prefer to see a UNITED kingdom, and not a fragmented island.

I agree Teresa...although an opinion poll I saw last night showed far more English were in favour of Scotland leaving the union than Scots lol x

I think I read that David Cameron doesn't want the referendum to be in England because of the fact that a lot of English would like to vote Scotland 'out'.

Ann,Also that they would be clammering for the one he promised us on the EU..A for the Scots, If they want out, so be it, but it would have to be completely,not partially.**M**.

Julia, there is no "proposed handover in 2014". 2014 is the SNP's proposed date for a referendum in Scotland, which was part of their manifesto in the last election for the Scottish Parliament. David Cameron is saying that the UK government has to give "permission" for any referendum to take place and to say what the questions should be or it won't be legally binding.

I think public opinion here in Scotland is divided at the moment, but if DC keeps telling the Scots what to do it may well back-fire and persuade more to vote for independance than might otherwise be the case.

Potty am I right in thinking that polls put it somewhere like a third supporting independence? x

Sorry Potty, I meant what you have just said. I was in full steam, and got abit confused. Sorry, I did not mean to confuse.

Julia in Derbshire

Think that is about right, Muffy.

Eldrig, the Queen would remain Queen of Scotland and Scotland would remain in the Commonwealth and I think that the Stuart dynasty originated in Brittany. Wasn't Bonnie Price Charlie quite a little man, rather like Nicolas Sarkozy?

Poddy

How do you know that Scotland would be part of the commonwealth? All the other countries in the commonwealth were colonised by the UK as a whole -- the union of teh crowns was an agreement to end years of cross border strife. They had their own monarchy before the Union, so if they want to revert back to being an independant nation, then they will have to decide on a new constitution and whether to have a president or a monarch, presumably. Do you really think Alex Haddock will accept the Queen as his head of state? I don't. I bet he would love to put a crown on his own head though!

As for the Stuarts, Charles 1st was the son of James 1st and VI of Scotland, who in turn was the son of Mary Queen of Scots, who was a Tudor. I don't think there was any French blood in the original dynasty, although taking onto consideration the incestuous nature of the European royal families it would be of no surprise. The Fench connection came later with the marriage of Charles 1st to the Roman Catholic Henrietta Maria in France in 1625.

Eldrick you do make me smile :-D

How many more times! Hadrians wall is not the Scottish Border! Theres nearly another 100 miles to go up the east coast! It's an enduring popular myth that the wall was built to keep the Scots at bay. It wasn't.

Its amazing how many people think Newcastle is in Jockland and that we in Northumberland all speak fluent Jockanese. I hereby declare that I am not Scottish, don't want to be and distance myself from any claim for republicanism from either side of the REAL border :-D :-D

Don't believe you Eldrick...bet you're a secret whiskey drinker too :-D :-D :-D :-D

Eldrig,

I think you need to get your history books out. the Stuart line goes back a lot further than Charles the 1st! This was the first Stuart or Stewart King of Scotland:

King Robert II of Scotland
Father: Walter Stewart
Mother: Marjorie daughter of Robert Bruce
Relation to Elizabeth II: 17th great-grandfather
House of: Stewart
Born: March 2, 1316 at Paisley
Ascended to the throne: February 22, 1371 aged 54 years
Crowned: March 26, 1371 at Scone Abbey, Perthshire
Married:(1) Elizabeth Mure, 1336
Married:(2) Euphemia of Moray, 1355
Children: 10 by Elizabeth Mure including John (Robert III), 4 by Euphemia and several illegitimate.
Died: April 19, 1390, at Dundonald Castle, Ayrshire, aged 74 years, 1 month, and 17 days
Buried at: Scone Abbey
Succeeded by: his son John who took the name Robert III

Robert was a grandson of Robert Bruce, and the first in the House of Stewart dynasty. The name came from his ancestor Walter Stewart who was appointed High Steward of Scotland by David I. He had escaped following the defeat of David II at Halidon Hill in 1333 and took over as Guardian of Scotland while David was in exile in France.

From this site:
http://www.britroyals.com/scots.asp?id=robert2

Mary Queen of Scots was also a Stewart, the daughter of James V of Scotland. Her grandmother was a Tudor, daughter of Henry VII of England.

Alex Salmond has stated that the Queen will remain the Queen of Scotland.

PP...I dont think I like that comment.

'sweaties coming down here have a passport and their jabs!!!!'


Marion ( whos not sweaty and yes i've had my jags)

Proddy M'dear

I dont see any mention of Brittany there, which was your originalk assertion. 'Tis not I that needs the history lesson :-)

And if you believe that Salmond would be content to leave the Queen as head of state, then fair enough. I don't, othewrwise why would he be so hell bent on independance?