General Chat

I am surprised that there hasn't been a thread started regarding the killing of two British ISIL fighters in Syria. Is the subject too controversial?

It probably is Bob but I am not going to condemn the government over this :-)

For the moment, probably. :-0

I think this is cloaked in so much secrecy, thus sparking speculation, but the full facts aren't known so it would be a disaster of a discussion :-(

those lads who went off to join IS knew what they were getting into - they deserve all they got - no one made them go - it was their choice - and a very bad choice as far as their grieving families are concerned

There could be an investigation, but to be honest we aren't going to be told much because it would compromise national security which imo is fair enough. A decision was made, it seems to have been made legally ( albeit not with the advance knowledge of the other political parties) based on good intelligence on the face of it.

sadly these situations will happen when its felt there is enough intelligence to uphold decisions.
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And its left two grieving families in Cardiff and Aberdeen with no clear answers.

I feel or these men's families as they have lost their Son's.But if they were such a threat to our country then I believe the right thing has been done.A few years ago I might not have the same response.

They went freely to fight a war ..they made their choice..
they ended up a casualty of war
no sympathy here

The unanimous opinion in the pub last night was that they got what they deserved. Anyone who commits, or encourages others to commit, offences against their own country is committing treason, which until recently was a capital offence.

I posted this 5:30pm

"(c) use the UK security apparatus to carry out ex judicial state executions at a cost of a hundred thousand pounds per missile - has no useful effect but mein gott it sure has great feel good factor"

update: it is by the by whether these guys "deserved it" or "knew what was coming". I bear no flag for the De'esh who have destroyed a land and way of life close to my heart. But ...

Accidental line of fire is one thing and the risks are known. However deliberate execution of British citizens by the British government without parliamentary knowledge or approval has a very flaky legal basis. Leaving aside Syria it sets a precedent that even Foggy Bottom does not enjoy. That Cameron says he would do it again removes any defense.

As Dermot says far from trivial. It is exceeding powers in this way that brought down Tony Blair.

Are you saying Rollo, that we should wait until they are caught and brought back to the UK for a "fair trial"?

Executive convenience and vox pop opinion cannot override due legal process otherwise the whole basis of a democracy founded on law goes out the window.

The British legal system does not recognise the concept of "clear and present danger" in the context of the British state only self defense for individuals subjected to physical assault and even then the terms are tough.

Cameron claims that two jihadists thousands of miles from the UK were in a position to and had the means and control with which to carry out some kind of outrage in the UK. All of the evidence for this is apparently to remain secret.

Much as I would like to see the demise of al De'esh this is not the way to achieve it.

William Joyce, Lord Haw-haw, could not be executed until after trial and due process. The roots of the supremacy of law over the executive reach back in English law to before the Conquest and the Normans themselves were legal geeks.

So, yes.

The State had no right to execute Lord HawHaw, he was not a British citizen.

Well I for one am not averse to the bending of rules if it keeps Britain a safer place and prevents further atrocities on our streets.

Governments who start bending the rules may end up in the International Criminal Courts.

When this news first came to light, my first thought was of another WMD scenario.

The legal clearance may be a bit murky, but on the other hand the men in question had rejected their British citizenship and embraced the Caliphate.

Some of you agree with me then.

Not many are playing by the rules at the moment Supercrutch.

Oh I know Lyndi.......take a look at Gaza :-(