General Chat

Joan

how much does your heating cost you annually?

We pay $652 (ca. £320) annually for electricity, which includes light and appliances etc, but also heating for half of our house.

We also pay approximately $900 (ca £400-425) annually for natural gas for heating the other half and hot water.


We have a small house, of around 1200 sq ft, on two levels, well insulated, and are in the mildest part of the whole country. We did a major renovation in the late 1970s, hence the two forms of heating ................ natural gas in the old half and electric baseboards in the new half.

From what I can gather, ex pat pensioners in Spain, Portugul, Gibralter, Malta & other places are not going to get it from this year.
Don´t know about anyone else, but I have not been officially informed of this.
Electricity prices in Spain have increased 75% in the last 8 years. We also pay 21% VAT on the total bill.
Our 2 bedroom flat is all electric & the annual bills work out at over 100 euros per month. There is no natural gas on the island so no alternative available.
Can´t understand how the government can discriminate against one section of pensioners, especially when they qualified for the payment before they emigrated.
It´s cold & damp here in winter too.

Wisechild, speaking of discrimination UK pensioners living in Commonwealth, and ex-Commonwealth countries don't receive any pension increases.

The rate I was paid two years ago when I first received the UK pension will remain at that rate for ever and a day. The only thing that varies it is the exchange rate. As the exchange rate has fallen, my uk pension in Australian dollar value has increased, conversely, as the Australian pension is calculated either on income or assets, my Oz pension has decreased :-(

Also the allowance doesn't seem to be targeted. Everyone gets it I think Eg MIL who is in a nursing home.

Andy

Alan.
You are absolutely right & it´s very unfair.
I can see the same thing happening to ex pats who live in European countries if Britain votes to leave the EU.
Meanwhile, immigrants get immediate financial support & those of us who have worked & paid into the system for 40 odd years don´t get the pension rights we were promised.
I realise that I am probably no worse off than other ex pats, but it would have been polite to have told us.
There will, I´m sure, be many ex pat pensioners who are unaware & will be expecting the payment to go into their bank accounts this month.

Mine is in my account this morning, i got a letter on Friday saying i would be receiving it within the next month.

I always seem to get it quite early , my surname begins with A

You know when I retire, if I am allowed to retire, I doubt that there will be such thing as fuel allowance, free bus passes, free TV licence, free prescriptions etc. So I think you should count yourselves lucky you get what you do. It was your choice to move abroad not the governments.

I too have worked all my life but will probably get nothing.

I have paid all my full rate NI and tax in the UK as has husband until we retired, therefore we are entitled to this small contribution towards the extra costs to heat our homes in the Winter months.

It will not stretch very far re electricity.

This house is the first we have had with mains gas for more than 35 years.

The cost of oil, bottled gas or even coal fired Rayburns which we have relied on was horrendous.

When looking for houses for this move we only looked at mains gas supplied properties.

I feel for families who suffer the extortionate prices for alternative fuels.

Having lived & worked all of my life in the public sector in one form or another I think I was entitled to choose where I live in retirement, especially now there is free movement within Europe.
I might just make two points.
The Winter fuel payment is the only extra that ex pats recieve (apart from the 10 pound Christmas bonus) & until a ruling from the EU a few years ago, in order to recieve it, you had to be over 60 & living in Britain prior to moving abroad.. In fact DWP have checked with me to confirm the date I left England.Then suddenly, people who had lived abroad for 20 years or more & before they became of pensionable age started to recieve it. No wonder it hasbecome unaffordable.
Secondly, unless you live in a modern property, houses are not insulated. Nor do they have any form of central heating & usually have stone floors which are extremely uncomfortable in winter. Each room has to be heated individually, which is very expensive.
It´s true to say that moving abroad was a choice & I agree that not all ex pat pensioners need the allowance. That is equally true of pensioners in Britain.
A State Pension is an entitlement, not a benefit but it is barely enough to live on, even in cheaper EU countries. For several years the exchange rate of the pound sterling was nearly at parity with the euro, while prices have rocketed. Luckily now the exchange rate is good. For how long, who knows.?

I worked in the UK before I married ................. and paid stamps from the age of 13 until 27. Admittedly I was only in full time work for the last 2½ years I was in the UK.

OH had about the same amount paid in

On an accountant's advice, we both withdrew ALL of the money when we left the UK in 1967, and have never claimed a pension or any benefits from the UK since. We have not even asked for health care during our visits back.


However, as someone (Allan, I think) pointed out earlier ................. UK pensioners living in Commonwealth or ex-Commonwealth colonies who do claim pensions from the UK do not receive any future increases of Cost of Living Allowances. The amount remains static at what it was when they first received it. UK pensioners living in other countries, including the US, do receive all future increases as and when they occur.


I had a cousin in Australia who had 3 pensions ............. one from Australia, one from the UK from approximately 20 years of working there before emigrating, and an Army pension. His father enlisted him in 1939 at the age of 16, and he served throughout the war..

In the year 2000, his army pension was the magnificent sum of 10p ........ yes, TEN PENCE.

His UK pension had not increased in the 12 years since he first received it in 1988.

Sylvia,

When I came out to Oz in 1982. I withdrew all my super that I had contributed from 1964 when I first started working, but couldn't withdraw anything I had contributed once super became compulsory. I don't remember which year that was :-(

As far as the UK national pension was concerned, as I had paid UK NI for20 years I was entitled to a UK aged pension. In applying for the Oz pension we had to first claim the UK pension otherwise we would not have received the Oz one.

Oz pensions are not paid as a right

The qualification for winter heating payment to EU countries is based on the relative difference between av temp in each EU state and av temp in the warmest part of the UK.

The UK calculation is done using Devon, Cornwall, Scilly Islands and ( I am told ) Gibralter. The French calculation includes the DOMTOM eg French West Indies, Tahiti. Spain includes the Canaries and North Africa enclaves. There is no weighting in the calculations.

There you go, retire to Riga or Helsinki.

If the EU is to become a true single market then restrictions on paying pensions across EU borders will have to go and the whole contribution system sorted out. For instance around the Lux/France/German common border people frequently move back and forwards across the border for work. This is making a right horlicks of their social contributions record.

It should be noted that occupational pensions do not impose residential requirements on pension payouts.

I don't myself agree with free bus passes, tv licenses, prescriptions etc etc to older people regardless of income. The tax office knows perfectly well how much income people have and it would be easy enough to bring in a means test - eg £ 25 K gross income for a single person, £ 40 K couple. The money saved would go a long way to helping out younger people trying to bring up a family and halting unpopular cuts in the BBC.

Quite agree with your last paragraph Rollo.

"Er Indoors" rec'd the allowance today

In Canada, we pay into two Government pensions while working ............. the OAS (Old Age Security) and CPP (Canada Pension Plan). The contribution is shared between the worker and the employer.

OAS can currently be drawn at 65, or delayed to any year up to age 70. The minimum age will be raised gradually to 67 beginning in 2023. The CPP can be drawn as early as 60 at a loss of approximately 5% for each year before 65, or delayed until as late as 70, with a gain of 5% for each year (as you continue to pay into it).

Everyone will get the OAS whether or not they have worked, as long as they meet certain eligibility conditions, including being a Canadian citizen or legal resident at age 65, and having lived in Canada for at least 10 years after turning 18.

Only those who have paid into CPP get it, and it can be income split between a couple.

In addition, many larger employers will also have private pension plans that they and the employee pay into.


Anyone in BC with an income below about $20,000 (just less than £10,000) a year, whether it be from working or a pension, gets their MSP (Medical Services Plan) premiums paid by the government, and get their prescriptions for free. They have to pay larger and larger shares of the cost as their income rises, until the government is paying nothing.

We all pay MSP premiums if our incomes are over that amount ................ OH used to pay it through his employer.The individual has to pay the monthly premium direct to the government if their employer does not have a plan.

As pensioners, we pay monthly MSP premiums ourselves, as well as Extended Health Plan and Dental Plan premiums to an insurer contracted by OH's employer to provide these plans. We are currently paying just under $400 (ca £175-200) per month for these. They all increase every January :-(

We also have to pay the full costs of all prescription drugs until we reach the annual deductible of $1000 (ca £450-475) required by the EHP. MSP does not pay any drug costs for OH and myself until we reach an annual expenditure of over $5,000 (ca £2,750)

MSP does pay all costs of visiting our GP, specialists if referred by him, all costs in hospital except for an amount charged by the hospital for the bed ($60 a night for a bed in a 2 bed ward last time I was in), part of the cost of an annual eye test ................... and that is it!

Again, those hospital costs will all be free for those with incomes under about $20,000.


We do not pay TV licenses ........... all TV, radio and other types of emdia are expected to raise their own funding. The national radio and TV station, CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp) does receive some funding by the Federal Government, but this ha been gradually cut over the last 10 years by the government we have just kicked out. Hopefully, the new government will re-institute at least some of that funding!

The transit companies usually offer some form of reduced (Concession) fare for seniors and children between age 4 and school leaving age ........... but it is up to them. I think our current Concession Fare is about 10% off the regular fare. It will vary across the country.

You are wrong that Commonwealth countries do not pay the pension increases. Increases were paid in Cyprus before it became part of the EU and it is a Commonwealth country.

Cyprus in an independent country (not as many assume, a Greek Island). It has always had a reciprocal agreement with the UK government about pensions etc.. Australia, Canada and some other counties do not have this agreement. I do not understand why there are glaring omissions but if you check you will find there are many countries with reciprocal agreements with the UK.

It is not a Commonwealth issue, it's an agreement issue.

We checked before moving out here. We are still being told by ill informed people our pensions would be worth far more if we were in the UK getting the increases (try explaining to some know alls we get the increases :-)).

I feel sorry for those who dip out but it was available to check up on and the reason why.

Wouldn´t it be wonderful if the government stopped moving the goalposts when it comes to pension entitlements.
My brother, who lives in England, asked for a pension forecast when he reached 60, 4 years ago.
He was told that he only had 33 years paid in, but it wouldn´t matter because he only needed 30, so naturally, he didn´t make any further payments.
He´s now 64 & has been told he won´t get a full pension, because he now needs 35 years of contributions & he has only 33 & no, he can´t purchase the 2 missing years, even supposing he could afford to, because they had to be purchased within 2 years of recieving his pension forecast.
I realise that money has to be saved somewhere, but surely not at the expense of people who have spent all their working lives planning for their retirement.
How on earth the younger generations can hope to make provision is beyond me.
It seems to be s case of "what can we change next"

Pat .....................

I'm glad you get the pension.

I was under the impression that it was ALL Commonwealth countries because those had not signed the reciprocal agreement that non-commonwealth countries had. I must admit my personal experience is Australia and Canada.

it doesn't affect us because we drew out all our money from the UK pension plan and receive nothing. I don't even expect to get treatment free on the NHS when or if we return

I do know some people who left the UK many years ago when they were in their 20s, and thus have worked most of their life in other countries, but are now claiming UK pensions ............ there is a loophole. Some had not even paid one full year of stamps before leaving as soon as they graduated from college or university. Yet somehow they can claim a UK pension.

I do not agree with that!


I think we ourselves are now imbued with a lot of the Canadian ethic ......

...... the state is responsible for taking care of those who cannot afford it.

If one can afford to save and set up private pension plans or other savings methods for retirement, then it is up to the individual to do so.

Almost 40% of OH's salary when he was working went to OAS, CPP, private pension, RRIF (registered retirement income funds), and insurance policy payments.

It meant his take home pay was really reduced, and my salary was needed for the "jam" ........... daughter's schooling, holidays, etc.

BUT we now can lead the life we want to lead without worrying about whether the government is going to help us out.

esp. for Sylvia

Uk benefits eg access to NHS depend on (a) having a legal right to reside in the UK and (b) passing what is known as the "Habitual Residency Test". A Brit who moved to say, Canada or Oz but retained their UK nationality would fail the HRT and thus not be entitled to free care on the NHS.

The UK has a special fund for those of pensionable age residing in the UK but without enough NI payments to draw a state pension and minimal assets or income. It pays out about the same as the minimum state pension. I have no idea if Canada has a similar backstop.

What would Sylvia suggest as an alternative for this group? The workhouse?

Rollo

Unfortunately I know of too many Brits living permanently in other countries who return to the UK specifically to get health care.

Plus, there are countless others who report having to go to A&E, offering to pay, and being told that "that's OK. It's free"

so what you say is good in theory, not so good in practice :-)


As regards those who have earned too little and what happens to them ...... read my last post.

EVERYONE in Canada gets the OAS (Old Age Security) regardless of whether they have worked or not. Plus, any senior below a certain minimum level of income is also eligible to apply for GIS (Guaranteed Income Supplement), which is means tested based on the previous year's income tax return.

A single person has to have a total annual income of less than $17,088 (ca £8,000) while a couple has to have a combined annual income of less than $22,560 (ca £11,000) before they are eligible for GIS

Some provinces also have GAIN (Guaranteed Annual Income) which adds a little bit extra on top of OAS and GIS

I have no idea of the income that the poorest person in the UK would receive, but I would hope it is fair.


I do hope you were exercising your sarcastic side when suggesting that I might want people in the workhouse ...............

I certainly do NOT appreciate such sarcasm.

As I stated earlier, if you had TRULY read and understood what I posted, I believe that the government needs to take care of the poorest.

Those of us who have higher incomes do not need help, AND, I believe we are all responsible for ensuring that we can save as much as possible for retirement as long as we are in secure, well-paid employment.

No pensions for millionaires :-D

I would be really interested to learn how people who left the UK in their 20s are eligible for a UK pension.

Unless they were being paid under a reciprocal tax agreement as a third country national it ain't possible.

It USED to be that living in one country and being paid by, for instance, a US company you could have your salary paid into your UK bank account, pay the appropriate amount of NI but be taxed in either the UK or the country you were resident in.

Either way you had to contribute to the NI fund in order to keep your 'card' filled.

Sue