General Chat

"Guinevere, it wasn't a daft question I also stated we should arm and train them."

Just my opinion, free speech and all that. Still think it's a daft question. Rose has given all the reasons why.

On that logic then IS will never be fought/stopped as they often don't stand out in the crowd !
Surely within the bubble of free speech one shouldn't think any thought/question is daft it's just different to your own. Without differences what is there.......

There won’t be agreement until each understands what the other is talking about.

"On that logic then IS will never be fought/stopped as they often don't stand out in the crowd"

. Just a thought...as so many people have said on here ( I'm not one of them) 'how do you tell a genuine refugee from an IS terrorist?'...by that same argument, how do you tell a genuine anti-IS/anti-Assad young man from one who isn't before you arm and train him? The psych assesments alone would take far too long, there will be nothing left of Syria to 'win back' by then.

If someone has a different opinion to me and they can defend that opinion in a reasoned manner, even if I disagree ( and I often do even with people who I recognise have a 'good' argument) I do TRY and listen to their argument and think about it.

But if something is daft ( imo) then there is no getting away from it, it's no good saying every opinion is as valid as the next...by that reasoning the opinions of Hitler, Jesus, Gandhi, Pol Pot and Kanye West are of equal value... which personally I don't reckon they are?

Dermot it's not always a question of not understanding though is it? sometimes it's a case of understanding only too well :-)

Well if you're going to bring in the opinions of Kanye West then it's just getting silly....... :-D

Quite...that's my point lol, if someone has a silly opinion then it's no good pretending otherwise or giving that opinion equal credence with one that is well thought out,. :-) I am sure Kanye West ( who I wouldn't recognise if I fell over him in the street) thinks his own opinion is as valid as mine.

Of course everyone should be entitled to an opinion, and freedom to express it ( within decent boundaries) but that doesn't mean it can't be challenged or the basis of it questioned, or the person asked "How would that work in practice then?"
:-)

Agreed...but no one has answered my question...if not them then who ?
As in stopping IS other than correctly pointing out it would be a very difficult task ID the actual enemy ....if not the local fit young men of many different countries not just Syria , then who....
The first people here in Toronto were not just from Syria but also Armenian.

So if I'm "daft" for asking who will stop IS then I'm "daft".
If I'm "daft" for asking for equal treatment of refugees and locals then I'm "daft"

People on these boards should understand; like you said; everyone is entitled to their point of view. To be called daft because you disagree is discouraging to many. Just because someone may go on the boards more often does not make their opinion more relevant.

I never ever said refugees shouldn't be allowed here but straight away I was told I should move to America and vote for Trump.....

Just to clarify I'm not sitting here crying into my coffee, but I can see why many would not bother voicing their opinion. :-)

Where dissenting arguments arise, they are often met with deaf ears. It is possible to post alternative views on these threads without being disrespectful to others.

I'm learning slowly but surely that sometimes my own opinion is sometimes best kept to myself - and that's a pitiful shame.

Agreed Dermot, I'm pretty sure I haven't been rude on here in any way if I have I apologise.

Nothing to do with how often one is on the board whether ones opinion is more or less relevant. The only issue is whether ones opinion or solution 'holds water' ?

I don't think someone who holds a different opinion is "daft" but their argument might well be, because in some cases it hasn't been thought through ...and that applies to a lot of opinions on here, including at times my own, when I see that I have not thought it through myself and that someone else has applied better logic.

I can't answer your question "Who should stop IS". I don't know who can do so, I am neither a military expert or an expert on the region. A lot of people think there should be no military intervention, for good reasons. A lot, also with good reasons, think that military intervention is the only possibility, as IS cannot ( and should not) be negotiated with.

I would speculate that it might be already well trained and well armed forces rather than people who have never fought, I would suggest that along with that there has to be a bigger plan for what happens afterwards rather than leaving the place in limbo and that said bigger plan has to secure the involvement of all parties in Syria that can and will be able to debate and reach decisions and compromises.

I would definitely say it is a bit late in the day to be bombing the oil supplies and routes that IS have used to enable them to fund their campaign. But then 'we' the West were supporting Assad, despite his regime being less than pleasant weren't we, we also deal with the Arab states that tacitly fund and support IS.

Re equal treatment of refugees and the homeless for example though, before there was a Syrian crisis, before there was a necessity to take in refugees, there was still a homelessness problem in this country, it's grown, due to the recession, and government cuts amongst other factors.

Should we be doing an equal amount for those people, well of course, would we be doing it if there were no refugees, probably not... it is a problem which has been ignored and underfunded by government because it is easier not to see it.

That is perhaps one virtue, one might think, of there being an influx of refugees, it has brought to the forefront home grown problems which have been swept under the carpet?

"There is a growing frustration at the terrible waste of so many boarded-up properties in towns and cities across the country. The latest estimate from the Empty Homes Agency is that there are more than 635,000 empty homes in England alone, and more than 200,000 of them are empty long-term (six months or more).

This means there are 10 empty homes for every one homeless family in England. According to figures collated by The Guardian from agencies across the EU, more than 11 million homes lie empty across Europe – enough to house all of the continent’s homeless twice over.

Filling empty homes is not easy. It’s true that many of Britain’s derelict buildings are now in bad condition. Homeless people often have complex needs, requiring a lot of support even once they have a roof over their head. And yes, the ownership issues around unused second homes, vacant shops and public halls awaiting redevelopment are complex." (http://www.bigissue.com/features/5854/a-new-road-for-empty-homes)

It was a daft question because the "local fit men" are not in any position to stand up to Da'esh. They don't have the resources or the training. Their cities are destroyed, their families killed. There is no infrastructure to begin to build on. That's why they are running for their lives and the lives of their children and risking death in the seas rather than stay and be killed in the bombing - whoever does it. They didn't create the war.

Who will stand up to Da'esh? Maybe the countries who armed the rebels in the first place should send some of their young fit men. The countries who made a fortune in arms sales to Arab and African countries - in Europe and in America - bear some responsibility for what's happening. It's fitting that they should accept refugees from this chaos.

Edit to say I cross posted with Rose.

Dermot if you express your opinion sensibly, people respond I have seen many threads where opinions of the posters have differed wildly but it has remained civil.

But I have to say sometimes you must realise that your topics rather than your opinion per se are bound to be contentious...eg if you are going to post on abortion or homosexuality ( which I believe were recent topics?) it's inevitable that someone will find some of the opinions 'debateable' at best, offensive at worst. That's not just you of course other people have posted on as I say abortion, probably a difficult topic for any board which has a bias of women posters as it is intensely personal and a very emotive subject, and not just for religious reasons.

Dermot, did you delete your thread about big mouthed people? Or was it GR?

I have removed my offending post. I don't wish to be a part of this bickering.

Margee I'm sorry you feel this is bickering, I have only ever stated my view which I fully understand differs from others. I have apologised if I was rude and yet the name calling goes on.

I have clearly stated I feel the locals should be armed and trained and yet some choose to ignore that and name call.

I am not aware of previous topics that Dermot may have been involved in, but I'm sure he's aware of any ants nests he made have trodden on.

Guinevere those risking their lives at sea are in the main not from Syria and are more likely to be economic migrants than refugees. Canada has only and will only ; as I believe the UK is doing; be taking refugees from UN camps not from across Europe.

That said I again state I hope we can agree to disagree in a pleasant manner.

No one has called you a name, Caroline, I said you asked a daft question. That isn't name calling.

Caroline, the majority of refugees in the sea are from Syria.

"Over 500,000 people have arrived in Europe since January, according to the United Nations, and more than half of those are Syrians fleeing an escalating civil war in their home country. About 54 percent of all arrivals have been Syrians, according to the U.N., followed by 13 percent Afghans, and 7 percent Eritreans. Nearly everyone arriving from those particular countries qualifies as a refugee. Around 84 percent of all arrivals have come from the top 10 refugee-producing countries in the world."

I quoted from this article

http://www.ibtimes.com/refugee-crisis-2015-explained-who-coming-europe-where-theyre-headed-why-2112352

Where is there a name call?

Okay obviously I took it too literally.......I am not daft just my questions...even when I back it up and it's ignored. Sorry.

Answered by both myself and Rose. Not ignored.

Not sure how many times I stated stay and fight....and qualified it with arm them and train them and yet I keep getting told they can't stay and fight because they don't want to die; they're not armed and they're not trained.

I get you don't agree with me and that's fine.

But there's no such thing as a daft/stupid/wrong question.