General Chat

Glad to hear the op went well.

take care of yourself, so you can take care of her in the days to come

Glad all went well

I wish your Mum a speedy recovery, Rollo.

Last Monday my mother was, for her age, a fit and well lady in command of her faculties. With a bit of help she was able to live independently.

Since coming out of surgery she has been in a side ward on her own. It is really tough trying to communicate with her. The staff seem unwilling to give her drinks or wait while she eats as she is very slow. My oh was able to work out that she is in a lot of discomfort from her catheter yet nothing is done.

Arriving as an emergency on Mon I cannot understand that surgery was not planned until Wed afternoon then cancelled. Wed night she was then overdosed on oramorphine, Thurs spent reversing the effects. Surgery not until Friday pm - Four days after emergency admission.

crowd of nurses / helpers crowded around facebook pictures, giggling. Nearby acute patients yelling for help, not coming. small boys running and even scootering in the ward space. At times three nurses for 25 acute trauma patients.

chaos

:-0

Not good although she could still be recovering from the anaesthetic or sedation. It can take longer than you think for it to leave the body :-0

Have you or your wife been able to visit during the scheduled meal times? You're more likely to have the patience to help her eat. They probably wouldn't mind if you took in food that you know she enjoys. Even a yoghurt or flask of soup is better than nothing.

I went in every day to feed hubby because they were leaving his food on the bedside table thing ,not even pulling it across in front of him ,and then coming back and taking it away saying not hungry Michael you haven't eaten anything
Poor man couldn't even sit up unaided he had to be propped up . He wasn't able to feed himself at all
Later discovered by a casual chat that those that needed help had their food on a red tray .others had a blue tray

His was always on a blue tray even after we found he couldn't feed himself
So if I didn't get in he wouldn't eat !!
I did go in every day for 6 weeks till we got him home

Granddaughter went in every evening to feed him his evening meal

Just one of the list of complaints daughter listed later

Rollo, make sure she gets plenty of liquid as lack of it can cause confusion and we all know what hospital staff confuse confusion with

Likewise with any urinary tract infection.

Ask them to check because they don't always do so, simply assuming that because she is elderly, she is bound to develop memory loss and Alzheimer's and in that scenario any UTI does not get treated.

Liquids are the key, Rollo.

Joy Louise is spot on with her advice Rollo, you MUST nag them to give your mother fluids, and check that she has not developed an infection, sit there until they do.

I don't want to breach someone's privacy by giving details, but this is so familiar to me that I know you must pursue it, relentlessly.

yesterday a snr nurse said to me that they cannot give her nutrition eg liquids uf she has not given consent! Although mum can move around a bit to get comfy basically she is not fully concious and can neither give nor deny consent. we were discouraged from giving her liquids at meal time. I saw "red trays" but did not know the significance.

this morning I have had to take oh to dental clinic op, snr cat is stlll around against all the odds eating Encore like mad and I have any amount of work generated by brexit. Adding fights with the NHS is something I dont need and unsure I can cope.

they have not given her thyroid or water pills.

Screams silently.

thankyou all for yr help

Rollo, check the liquid situation because I'd be surprised if your mother has to consent, rather that she has to refuse.

Challenge the sister, saying that since Mum has not refused liquid, she ought to be given it as they do with everyone else, otherwise it could be thought that discrimination was occurring.

Does your Mum have a special cup or straw to drink with? Sometimes the elderly shake and if she's been given an open cup or beaker and spillage has occurred, it could be that your Mum has refused simply because of that.

You may feel that you're batting your head against a brick wall and that's par for the course but, remember, try every trick in the book, Rollo. It looks as though there are several people on this thread who know exactly how you must be feeling.

It's tragic that some hospitals, wards and medical staff operate under what seems to be no direction at all yet others operate under topnotch guidance and direction.

Are there no almoners or matrons anywhere now?


Edit: Rollo, while I would normally prefer a side ward, if I were in your mother's position, I'd probably prefer to be in a normal 4- or 6-bed ward so people can see what's going on and when I needed anything.

Rollo, I have been in a similar situation several times with my husband and his many medical problems. It is a nightmare situation and very draining emotionally and so I encourage you to find the time to eat sensibly and relax yourself when the opportunity arises.

You certainly have more than enough to cope with right now. I do hope that things will settle down and become calmer before too long.

it is me that got her into the side ward
not free though

Well I often went in to see hubby was back on a drip because he was getting dehydrated
Am sure they didn't ask him do you want to be hydrated before they administered it

I often checked they were keeping up with his meds because he was on a 24 hour patch for his Alzheimer.

Yes it's been changed was one time a reply
Has it was my query cos it's in the same place as yesterday ????

Yes I did it myself. .sooo haven't you looked at how it has to be administered as it mustn't be in the same place within a 14 day cycle
Blank look from the nurse
I complained to the sister in charge only for it to be brushed off .
But the skin could develope a problem if wasn't rotated

Poor man just laid in the bed and they left him to doze and be quiet Cos it suited them

What are they on about? She hasn't given consent to be given liquids/nutrition ? What utter rot!
OK, you can't force someone to eat or drink, but you can cajole. Just as you might refuse a cup of tea at 2.30, you might welcome one at 3 :-|

Does your mother have other relatives or friends who can visit & keep an eye on her care while you're tied up with other events?

We do feel for you. It must be a living nightmare. Please look after your own health.

well this is the current position.
she has an iv çonnection but it has no nutrients.
she has a weak swallow so she has been denied anything by mouth as "too risky'.

I thought the Liverpool pathway nonsense was history.
Seems not.

the surgery itself has been successful.

I have a meeting with one of the elusive doctors tomorrow.
What the heck can I do?

Oh Rollo I don't know what to say...

Ask the Dr if they have any reason to believe your mother had a stroke during the op ( they won't tell you unless you ask ).
Ask why she is not being given nutrients and fluids via IV if nothing can be swallowed.
Tell them that prior to entry into the hospital your mother was lucid and independent, and query whether the lack of fluids has caused a UTI and if so how is that being treated.

Go armed with a notebook and record what's said ( and note down now your concerns so you don't forget when under pressure) ... and, if you get no reasonable answers, 'suggest' strongly that any lack of care will be noted and acted upon.

Good luck.

Second what Nyx says.

Also, if possible, take your wife or someother relative with you. They may hear or interrpret differently something that was said. Your head will be in such a whirl that you may miss something.

Ask why they aren't giving her thickened liquids by mouth or, if there is a good reason, when they hope to start that.

she has had a slow, weak swallowing action for a long time we just make the obvious adjustments. yet it is this which they say makes it too risky to feed her and as they refuse nutrients by iv as well....

everything was going fine before they gave her oramorphin which is not to be used on patients with weak kidneys. (source hosp guidelines). they claim to have rectified this error quickly.

imho if her strength was built ip she may be ok. She can make sensible answers yes/,no to questiond and recognises people by voice.

murder by protocol?

despondent

I am so sorry to read this. I fully emphasise as similar appalling care and much worse after an op almost killed my father. The problem is that you assume the staff will do the right thing for the patient, but are reluctant to "make a fuss" at first.

If she can't swallow then there is no reason she can't be fed by an NG tube through her nose. When I realised that they were effectively starving my father to death by not giving him food and water, I stepped in big time and insisted that the ward sister made a written record of my complaints. This means she has to escalate it higher, so will actually start to do something.

Feeding through the tube saved my father and he had another eighteen months to live.

Of course there is the problem of her giving consent. The tube is uncomfortable and the natural reaction is to pull it out. After a few days because he was stronger my father did pull his out. Mercifully, it was on a weekend when only one consultant was on duty. It happened to be the geriatric lady who he had seen a few times previously. She knew him, so agreed to have one go at putting it back, but said if he refused she couldn't do it. Luckily he let her and afterwards had no recollection of having pulled the tube out and said he wouldn't have taken it out if he had known.

A few years later, incompetence in a failure to diagnose sepsis effectively killed my mother as well, so I have no faith at all in the ability of the NHS when dealing with old people. At one stage she was too frightened to drink because she had wet the bed because the nurses were too busy to be bothered answering buzzers. Having learnt from my father, I insisted the ward sister wrote down my complaints and there was an immediate improvement in the standard of her basic nursing care.

So my advice for you is insist on a meeting with the ward sister and or doctor and insist they record your concerns in writing. Also go and find the hospital PALs office and get their help in mediating for you

It is a pity that you do not have the new lasting power of attorney for your mother.
There are 2 types of LPA:

health and welfare
property and financial affairs

While many people make the financial one, not many people bother with the health and welfare one. OH and I have taken out both types, we have it arranged so that we will both be attorney for each other, then when either of us dies, the children will step in.
This gives us the right to make those medical,decisions which the hospital is talking about in respect to your mother.

I hope you manage to get them to listen to you

I have been on the phone all morning. The NHS sure don't facilitate getting in touch with their key people. Expecting a meeting with the Matron tomorrow. I shall take all of the feedback from here with me.

I have experienced acute health systems in France, Benelux, the GCC and the USA. Based solely in that France, UK joint best for the health care at the point of delivery. The UK though has an organisational muddle which is compromising all the good work. It is also wasting a lot of money.

Here is an example. People with stroke or mini stroke symptoms need urgent assessment. The NHS web site tells sufferers to allow at least two hours for an appointment. Two hours plus is not urgent. In my case it was 14 hrs and recovery delayed.

Those of you who have fought and won v nhs must have remarkable stamina, patience and negotiating skills.

take care