General Chat

Does it matter any more?

Is there anyone else like me who winces when they see “Potatoe’s” and “Sprout’s” outside a greengrocer’s? I came across this example of how things can go wrong yesterday: A woman, without her man, is nothing. A woman: without her, man is nothing. So bring back grammar is what I say. Bob

Hi Bob, Grocers' apostrophes drive me crazy. There was a thread on here a while back asking what irritated you and that's what I wrote about. I also wince when people say Haitch instead of Aitch. When I'm a batty old woman (not long to go now) I shall handbag any grocer, greengrocer or market stall holder who misuses the apostrophe. Gwynne (daughter of a former Head of the English Department in a Comprehensive School)

Bob Why, cannot both examples be correct? Surely it all depends in which context either one is used. Steve

Steve The point is that both examples are correct - but with entirely different meanings. Bob

Eats, shoots and leaves, Eats shoots, and leaves. Eats, shoots, and leaves.

I have a red t-shirt with the a woman without her man etc - different version front and back. Whenever there are any discussions about grammar, correct use of English etc. I remember my father's story about a man who came into his dad's shop to complain. He said: 'You ain't been and gorn and dun it like as 'ow as wot as I said'. Nell

The English language can so often be taken the wrong way. One instance is:- I re sent your email. I resent your email. World War 3 could be started with that one. June (worst subject at school - grammar)

Bob 206719. Sorry. Off topic> Is not your 'Eats,shoots and leaves' the punchline to a rude joke about pandas??

My 7 year old grandaughter was staying with me for the weekend, and, when she was doing her writing homework, she was telling me about apostrophes. I was astonished! I didn't think children were taught punctuation now, let alone in Infant school. She knew when to use them too. When a letter is missing - let's instead of let us, don't instead of do not, and so on, and when something belongs to someone - Emma's pen or Grandma's cup. I tried to catch her out by writing Emmas a beautiful girl, but she soon put me right. I was amazed, even my 20 year old son wasn't taught punctuation in Primary school. Sue xx

Many of today's teachers have been taught English by teachers who themselves had little instruction in grammar.

Bob, One example that always amuses me is the song title 'What is this thing called love?' Often used by comics with a comma after 'called'. I think the proper use of grammar is important in official correspondence and speech, but I can't see that one should need to bother about split infinitives, where the apostrophe is or isn't, etc, in everyday exchanges. We all use the vernacular and colloquialisms - I think the most important thing is to make ourselves understood, and English is such a fluid language (diversity of regional dialects, for instance) that it evolves constantly. Fings ain't wot they used to be, mate! I've read and written a great many official and legal letters and found the lack of punctuation, which is supposed to assist with clarification of meaning, leads to ambiguity - but then it gives legal bods something to do, doesn't it? I must admit that I'd have paid a lot more attention to the works of Shakespeare, when I was at school, if it had been presented in modern English. I found it too convoluted by half. CB >|<

I would guess the lack of punctuation in legal documents is to avoid changes in meaning which could be achieved by subsequent, surreptitious insertion of a comma. Whether such documents actually make sense - ah, that's a different matter! I agree with most of what CB says but the survival of regional dialects suggests to me a certain lack of fluidity, rather than an indication of this fluidity. Unfortunately, these days of mass communication is leading to the gradual erosion of these dialects - the LOSS of dialects is an indication of the fluidity. In days gone by, dialects were (to a large extent) preserved by geographical features - ranges of hills and rivers - but in these days of broadcasting, these barriers have been broken down.

At least you can spell the word!! Yes, I do think it matters....an application for a job littered with spelling/grammar mistakes could be the difference between getting an interview or not, nobody wants to appear illiterate. Lily

Bob, I prefer the last example. You know it makes sense. LOL Jan

Another common mistake is to use it's when it should be its for possession. This is the exceptional case. Janice

It makes me mad when I here the words 'number' and 'amount 'or 'fewer' and 'less' used in the wrong way. Louise

When i was at primary school we had a book called, first aid in english. It taught you all the nouns, verbs, where to put commers, full stops etc. BRING IT BACK!! Bad grammar drives me mad. Why does my daughter say, ' she goes to me , i goes to her. It's not goes it's said. GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRR. Jo.

At work today I heard the following - 'Was you on your own yesterday.....' 'I lent it off me mum......' and written.....'we are all been extra careful....' But what annoys me most of all, on television, radio and in life in general is the missing 'T'......a girl at work her boyfriend is Sco.....(Scott)...just one example from many hundreds.....

Sorry...just remembered as I clicked 'add message'...each evening I read the 'hatches, matches and despatches' in our local newspaper and the number of times 'aunty' appears beggars belief................I know this isn't grammar...but it is toe curling............