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My GG was born in 1864 (no father) his mother Isabella died in 1867 at this time only his Maternal grandad (Robert Brodie) was still alive(his Grandmother is listed as dec on Isabellas death cert) I cannot find anything for John from his birth until the 1891 census where he is shown as a boarder in Calton Glasgow occupation Baker. I know this IS him because he was a baker who ended up as the treasurer for the Union of Bakers. Can anyone help me fill in the gap in my research. I have checked with both Quariers (too early for them) and with Barnardos and no luck. Any help would be much appreciated.
Linda

ancestry.co.uk has a tree with John Brodie in it

Tree owner is stewartcm

Hi Jane,
Thanks for your reply the tree owner is my cousin and she is stuck at the same point as me. He seems determined to keep us guessing!
Linda

1871 Scotland census

John Brodie age 6 bn abt 1863 Glasgow,at what looks to be an institution.classed as pauper but could apply to being a orpha,.lots of children there.

The instution records could have survived to list his details on entry.

Yep I found this entry and went through to Ayr where the records for the poorhouse in question are kept turns out this John entered the poorhouse with his 3 brothers and mother after the death of his father so unfortunately again a dead end as "my" John had no siblings or indeed as they say "father unknown" Thanks for your help

There is one 1881 a bakers appentice as nephew,age 17.

the actual image on SP maybe different to the Ancestry transcript as I have found in the past.

Yep I found this one he is listed as a nephew but place of birth didnt match up found his BC and again not "my" John. I keep hitting a brick wall with him .

Sorry if I am stating the obvious here. Have you searched the Glasgow Poor Relief records at The Mitchell Library? Could be have perhaps been brought up by a married sister of Isabella and be listed on the census with a different surname? Was there an RCE on his birth certificate proving paternity? He may have been taken in by his paternal family.

Where did Isabella's family come from please? Do you have them on census records? Who was the informant of Isabella's death please?

Hi everone,Just logged in again and firstly I want to say a big thanks to everyone who has posted areply and tried to help. Can rootgatherer pls tell me what an RCE is?
Perhaps at this stage it would be helpfull if I post all the info I have. John Brodie was born illegitamate on 25th August 1864. His birth was registerd by his mother Isabella Ann Brodie on 30th Sep in Milton Glasgow.
Isabella diedon16/2/1867 in the Central District of Glasgow. Her death was registered by her father Robert Brodie on 18/2 his occupation is shown as a commercial traveller her mother (Ann Thomson nee Clark ) is listed as deceased - I cant find her death certificate.
I found Isabella (17yrs) on the 1861 Census together with a James Brodie (19yrs) listed as visitors her place of birth was shown asEngland. I gor a copy of her BC and it is her - parents match I then checked for her parents marriage and for James BC I think he was her brother but according to Johns grandchildren (some are still living) they never had any aunts or uncles - but James would have been a grt uncle - I think! I found his marriage cert and in the 1871 census he is shown with his family in Glasgow living with him is a Robert Brodie listed as father-in-law! In the 1881 it is just James and his family still in glasgow. Then in the 1891 Census I find "my" John in Glasgow age 26 and listed as a Baker which is what he was. I have his 2 marriage cert and his death cert.
I just cannot find him from the time of his birth Aug 1864 until the 1891 Census. I did check the Poor Relief records at the Mitchell Library no joy I thought it was him on the 1871 Census for Cunninham Poorhouse but after searching their records found that John was in the poorhouse with 3 brothers and his mother. I cannot understand why we cant trace him we didnt know Isabella had a brother but even after finding him John still soesnt appear to be living with him as I said I have checked with both Quarriers and Barnados and no joy.
Does anyone have any suggestions/hints what I can try next?
Once again everyone thanks amillion for all your help.

Are you sure Isabella's mother name was (Ann Thomson 'nee' Clark)

Could the full name have been Ann Thomson Clark

Marriage:
Robert Brodie
Anne Thomson Clark
12 Feb 1837 Little Dunkeld, Perth, Scotland


This same marriage is also recorded in Dunfermline .. different date. (both may have been the calling of Banns for each persons respective parish.

Robert Brodie
Ann Thomson Clarke
24 Feb 1837 Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland

Child:
James Brodie
Born: 5 Jan 1843
Christened: 29th May 1842
United Association Burgh Seceders, Limekilns, Fife, Scotland.

Isabella may have had a brother after all ... as noted on the 1861 census.

Hi,
if Anne Thomson (Clark) Brodie died before 1855 then it is unlikely you will find a death cert as they didn't really exsist prior to that. If you are very lucky you may be able to find a record in Old Parish Records

Not sure if this could be the family 1851 census

Name: James Brodie
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relationship: Son
Mother's Name: Margaret Anderson
Gender: Male
Where born: Limekilns
Parish Number: 424
Civil parish: Dunfermline
Town: Limekilns
County: Fife
Address: Village Of Limekilns
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 2A
Page: 49 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 240
Line: 7
Roll: CSSCT1851_87
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Anderson 73
Ann Brodie 38
James Brodie 9
Isabella Brodie 6
Thomas Clark 38

ignore that it gives James mother as Margaret Anderson...she is probably his grandmother.

edit......Margaret is Ann Brodie's aunt

Hi Helen,
thanks for that. I am going to do some checking on the info you sent and on the info I have as there are some differences and then if you dont mind I will update my post probably 2moro The death cert (if I have the correct one) lists Isabellas mother as Ann Thomson Brodie M.S. Clark

Think this may be your John. Known as John Ferguson in 1871 census in Glasgow.

Name: John Ferguson
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Robert Ferguson
Mother's Name: Joan Ferguson
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanark
Registration Number: 644/1
Registration district: Central District
Civil parish: Glasgow St Paul
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 4 College St
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 43
Household schedule number: 126
Line: 9
Roll: CSSCT1871_123
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Ferguson 47
Joan Ferguson 40
Thos Ferguson 22
Margaret Ferguson 18
Christina Ferguson 14
William Ferguson 11
John Ferguson 6
Isabella Ferguson 2

In 1881 known as John Brodie nephew -

Name: John Brodie
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relationship: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/5
Registration district: Blackfriars
Civil parish: Glasgow St Paul
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 4 College St
Occupation: Feeder In Printing Office
ED: 21
Household schedule number: 50
Line: 4
Roll: cssct1881_226
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Ferguson 57
Joan Ferguson 50
Isabella B Ferguson 12
John Brodie 15

In 1891 which you already have you will see Joan Davis Ferguson at the same address.

Robert Ferguson and Joan Davies or Davis were married in 1848 in Glasgow. On IGI I searched for a son John. All of their children came up but no John. Therefore I am making the assumption this is John Brode as identified in 1881 and 1891 censuses.

Catherine

Linda - an RCE (Register of Corrected Entries) sometimes appears on certificates. On birth certificates it often refers to the paternity of the child if the mother has gone to court to have paternity proved. Look in the left hand column of the birth certificate, that is where the RCE is usually noted indicting the volume and page number. On Scotlandspeople when you click on the entry you want to look at if there is an RCE there is usually a red box with the letters RCE near the top of the page (from memory). You then click on this and it costs another 2 credits to view it.

Please note the address of 4 College Street. This was the address given on Isabella's death cert.

Catherine

Hi Catherine,
I checked in earlier and found your reply I psoted areply to you but if seems to have gone wakabout1
I am awaiting a reply to an e-mail which hopefully will confirm that I am looking for the correct John Brodie I am 99 per cent sure I am.
From the info I have I dont think this is him he was a Baker all his life its shown on every doc Ive traced Ie census, marriage x 2 and childrends BC and even his DC.
Will get peace 2moro when OH + kids are out of the way and will re list everything I have. Can anyone enlighten me as to what an RCA on a BC is? Thanks again

Yes this is the address on Isabellas DC now need to try and figure out what the relationship is between John and the Ferguson family!! It really would be too much of a coincidence for a different Jonn Brodie to be staying at the same address wouldnt it?
Do you think he could have changed occupations from the printing works to becoming a Baker?
Can anyone also advise me if someone who was an Excise Officer would then become a Commercial Traveller do you know of anywhere I could checkout if Robert Brodie (Johns maternal grandad) did this and when he changed jobs ie is there somewhere I can contact to clarify this .thanks you just may have broken through my brick wall!!!

Hi again,
Catherine can I ask you how you got the info from the census under the different name did you use the address if so how do you do this
A million thanks for all your help

Looked for John Brodie in 1881 census. Found the one as nephew. Decided to go back to 1871 and could not find John Brodie, so decided to look at the Ferguson's in 1871 and this is where I found 'John Ferguson'. To make sure I checked to see if they had a son called John on IGI. As I said before they did not. I then checked the marriage of Robert and Joan and found her maiden name - Davis. When I looked at the 1891 census I saw her (Joan Davis Ferguson) with John Brodie.

A bit more info. Isabella had a brother called James born 1842 in Limekilns in Fife. He married Jane Blair. He died in 1889 in Moulin in Perth. Isabella's father Robert born (1813 in Haddington) died in 1885 in Dunfermline.

I can't see an obvious connection for the Fergusons but, maybe you can research a bit further.

Catherine