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Henry Malcome Robert Barlow Harris 1891/1901

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Ed

Ed Report 12 Jan 2014 15:25

Henry born 7 Apr 1848 Lambeth to Jabez Harris and Margaret Duggin. In 1851/61 he is with parents in Lambeth Surrey. In 1911 he is in Islington Workhouse and shown as widowed and a butcher.
I think in 1881 he is living in Clerkenwell with wife Jane and children. It appears that he may have married in 1874 to Jane Bransford nee Devonald. I can not find either Henry nor Jane in 1891 or 1901. Can someone have a look please?

Gee

Gee Report 12 Jan 2014 15:32


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921



Name:Henry Harris

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1848

Age:26

Spouse Name:Jane Bransford

Spouse Age:36

Record Type:Marriage

Event Date:20 Dec 1874

Parish:
St Giles without Cripplegate

Borough:City of London

Father Name:Tabez Harris

Spouse Father:James Deboneld

Register Type:Parish Register

Andrew

Andrew Report 12 Jan 2014 15:33

Is this correct 1881?


Henry Harris 33
Jane Harris 43
Arthur Harris 5
Frederick Harris 3
Margaret Jones 17
Charles H. Heison 18
H.J. Van Hoen 28






if so, maybe Jane and children 1891


Thomas Mountfort 34
Jane Mountfort 33
Arthur H Harris 15
Frederick J Harris 13
Clara Owen 25
Ann Woodifer 38
Gustave A Hipperman 40

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1887 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Harris Jane Holborn 1b 1202
MOUNTFORT Thomas Holborn 1b 1202


Jane in both census born Pembrokeshire



Andy



LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 Jan 2014 15:39

A tree on Ancestry has a different wife although other trees may not be accurate.

Birth: Jun 1848 - England
Parents: Jabez Harris, Margaret Duggin
Spouse: Caroline Jane Mayo

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 Jan 2014 15:41

His baptism

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Henry Malcolm Robert Barlow Harris
Name: Henry Malcolm Robert Barlow Harris
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 7 May 1848
Father's Name: Jabez Harris
Mother's Name: Margaret Harris
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark Christ Church
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 Jan 2014 16:06

He had a brother
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Edward Arthur Harriss
Name: Edward Arthur Harriss
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1844
Baptism Date: 20 Oct 1844
Father's Name: Jabez Harriss
Mother's Name: Margaret Harriss
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark Christ Church
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Ed

Ed Report 12 Jan 2014 16:08

Appears that Jane may not have died. Supposedly there would have been a divorce? Nice to have confirmation re marriage

Thanks

Mike *

Mike * Report 12 Jan 2014 16:11

The marriage to Caroline Jane Mayo is quoted on those trees as being 1884 but not seeing a Henry Harris


Marriages Dec 1884
Blanchard Edward Guildford 2a 84
Edwards John Guildford 2a 84
Mayo Caroline Guildford 2a 84
Sheppard Amy Elizabeth Guildford 2a 84

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 Jan 2014 16:29

I did say not necessarily accurate Mike*

I have been searching with just the term 1838 +/- 5 occupation butcher with no name and I have not found him.

patchem

patchem Report 12 Jan 2014 16:35

I think this is the Henry Harris who marries Caroline:
1901 England Census
Henry Harris Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male
Spouse: Caroline Harris
Birth Place: Lambeth, London, England Civil Parish: St George the Martyr
County/Island: London Country: England
Street Address: 43 Clifton Buildings
Occupation: Journeyman butcher
Henry Harris 45
Caroline Harris 37
Barlow Harris 5
Doris Harris 2
Robert Harris 1

patchem

patchem Report 12 Jan 2014 16:39


1911 England Census
Caroline Harris Age in 1911: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation to Head: Head Gender: Female
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil Parish: Deptford St Paul
County/Island: London Country: England
Street Address: 34 Faulkner St, New Cross S E
Marital Status: Married 27 Years
Estimated Marriage Year: 1884
Occupation: COTTON BAG TRADE
Registration District: Greenwich
Registration District Number: 28 Sub-registration District: Deptford South ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Piece: 2643
Caroline Harris 45 15 children, 8 living
Barlow Harris 15
Doris Harris 12
Leonard Harris 9
Martha Harris 7
Irene Harris 2
Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 2643.

patchem

patchem Report 12 Jan 2014 16:45

Father is a butcher
Barlow Harris
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 22 Sep 1899
Father's Name: Henry Robert Harris
Mother's Name: Caroline Jane Harris
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St John the Evangelist
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Added;
Born 29 April 1895, also baptised Doris and Robert at the same time

JoonieCloonie

JoonieCloonie Report 12 Jan 2014 18:05

Births Jun 1864
MAYO Caroline Jane Holborn 1b 497

The reason there is no marriage to Henry Harris is that she was already married :-)

and ordinary people seldom got divorced at that time, they just moved on

of the couples who married in 1884, Edwards probably married Sheppard:
John and Amy E Edwards in Hackney in 1891

so Mayo married Blanchard but I can't trace him ...

whoever made that tree just took the 'estimated marriage date' / years married from the 1911 census and did not bother finding a real marriage

edit, I expect this is her death

Name: Caroline J Harris
Birth Date: abt 1864
Date of Registration: Dec 1922
Age at Death: 58
Registration District: Camberwell
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 803

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 Jan 2014 18:13

Interesting as

Barlow Harris
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 22 Sep 1899
Father's Name: Henry Robert Harris
Mother's Name: Caroline Jane Harris

Barlow is one of the names of our Henry.

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 Jan 2014 18:32

for reference

1851 Address: 24, Tenison Street, Lambeth
HARRIS, Jabez Head Married M 36 1815 Butcher
Penrith, Gloucestershire
HARRIS, Margaret Wife Married F 32 1819
Southwark, Surrey
HARRIS, William Son M 7 1844
Christchurch, Surrey
HARRIS, Arthur Son M 6 1845
Lambeth, Surrey
HARRIS, Margaret Daughter F 4 1847
Lambeth, Surrey
HARRIS, Barlow Son M 2 1849
Lambeth, Surrey
HARRIS, Peter Son M 1 1850
Lambeth, Surrey
COURTENAY, Mary Servant Unmarried F 18 1833 House Servant
Cork, Ireland

JoonieCloonie

JoonieCloonie Report 12 Jan 2014 18:38

I do think it's sorted :-)

Henry ... Harris and Caroline Jane Mayo did not marry because she was previously married

(only one Caroline Jane Mayo ever existed)

and apparently Henry was as well ... one or both of their spouses may not have been deceased

then in 1911 Henry's 'real' wife was deceased so he was a widower

the birth certificate for Barlow Harris would give conclusive info for his mother

Births Jun 1895
Harris Barlow Wandsworth 1d 716

JoonieCloonie

JoonieCloonie Report 12 Jan 2014 18:55

Jane Bransford in 1871 in St Bodolph without Aldersgate

William Bransford 28
Jane Bransford 33
Martha Bransford 8
Agnes Bransford 5
Elizabeth Davies 19

Deaths Mar 1873
Bransford William James 30 London C. 1c 15

widowed Jane Bransford married Henry Harris 1874

daughter Martha in 1881 in Clerkenwell

Martha Bransford 18
Thomas Bransford 8 brother to lodger

... boarding with Henry Harris, Butcher, and wife Jane in Clerkenwell:

Henry Harris 33 butcher born Lambeth
Jane Harris 43 laundress born South Wales Pembrokeshire
Arthur Harris 5
Frederick Harris 3
Margaret Jones 17 servant


Andrew had the right household early on, but because Ancestry has butchered the household you have to look at the image to make the connnection with Bransford to be sure

and I would agree with the Mountfort 'marriage' Andrew posted :-)

Caroline in 1871 in St James Clerkenwell, for good measure

Thos Mayo 42
Caro Mayo 40
Thos G Mayo 17
Minnie Mayo 14
Geo P Mayo 12
Eliza C Mayo 10
> Caro J Mayo 7
Ada E Mayo 3

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 Jan 2014 19:09

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Doris Jane Ivy Harris
Name: Doris Jane Ivy Harris
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 22 Sep 1899
Father's Name: Henry Robert Harris
Mother's Name: Caroline Jane Harris
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St John the Evangelist
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Robert William Harris
Name: Robert William Harris
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 22 Sep 1899
Father's Name: Henry Robert Harris
Mother's Name: Caroline Jane Harris
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St John the Evangelist
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

baptised same day as Barlow and father is a buther. I cnnot read the address but it is Walworth.

JoonieCloonie

JoonieCloonie Report 12 Jan 2014 19:26

yes patchem posted the Barlow baptism and noted that the other two were baptised on the same day :-)

birth certificate will give the info about the mother and is the only way to get it!

patchem

patchem Report 12 Jan 2014 19:48

We have not got Henry in 1891, and we have not got Caroline in 1891. Or Caroline in 1881.

She claims 15 children by 1911, so will some of these be born to Blanchard?
If so, what happened to them?

And why has Henry left her and is in the workhouse in 1911?

And what year of birth is he claiming in some of those censuses?

I am still looking.