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I have hit a road block in my family tree and would be glad of any help/ suggestions.

My grandfather's mother was Eliza Louisa Harris, possibly Louisa Eliza! According to the the census. I have her from 1891 to 1911 she was born between 1866-68 in Barnstaple Devon. She married Walter Brook(e) in 1889 in Leeds. She had a son Albert in 1888 also in Leeds. His birth cert was hard to track but I think I may have tracked it to Leeds but it maybe incorrect!

I have him as Albert Harris and his father is listed as Richard Harris not Walter Brook (whose surname he must have taken after his mother's marriage.) I can find no marriage for Richard and Eliza( louisa) and am not sure if he is a real person or whether Walter was indeed Albert's natural father.

I have no info for Eliza( Louisa) before she marries Walter and wonder if any one can suggest how to break the deadlock
sincerely Sue

For reference - this is them on 1891:


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Howarth Terrace, Leeds, Yorkshire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Walter Brook Head Married Male 35 1856 Book Keeper Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Louisa Brook Wife Married Female 25 1866 - Barnstaple
Transcription
Emma J Brook Daughter Single Female 15 1876 Sewing Machinist Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Anne Brook Daughter Single Female 12 1879 - Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Ernest Brook Son Single Male 8 1883 - Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Lillian Brook Daughter Single Female 5 1886 - Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Albert Brook Son Single Male 2 1889 - Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Dea x

Wonder about this one. She has an elder brother Richard with her..

Maybe she gave his name as father to save face


1871 census

Eliza
Last name Harris
Relationship Inmate
Marital status -
Gender Female
Age 6
Birth year 1865
Occupation -
Birth town -
Birth county Devon
Birth county as transcribed DEVON
Birth place England
House name -
Street The Barnstaple Union Workhouse, Barnstaple
Parish Barnstaple
Town -
City Barnstaple
County Devon
Country England
Registration district Barnstaple
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 2184
Folio 80


Or maybe her father was a Richard

ELIZA
Last name HARRIS
Birth year 1865
Birth quarter 3
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District BARNSTAPLE
County Devon
Country England
Volume 5B
Page 445

So those elder children must be her step children :-)

The first thing to do would be to get a copy of that marriage cert to Walter.

This shoukd give you her marital status at that time and her father's name and occupation.

The witnesses on there may also be helpful, especially if they were family members

The cert will cost you £9.25 from the GRO site where you can order online stating the reference number shown below:

Marriages Sep 1889
BROOKE Walter Leeds 9b 874
Harris Eliza Louisa Leeds 9b 874

Dea x

Who does she give as her father on the marriage cett

WALTER
Last name BROOKE
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1889
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ WALTER BROOKE married one of these people
ELIZABETH ROWSON, ELIZA LOUISE HARRIS
District LEEDS
District number -
County Yorkshire
Country England
Volume 9B
Page 874
Record set England & Wales marriages 1837-2008
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain
© brightsolid online publishing ltd

First name(s) ALBERT EDWARD J
Last name HARRIS
Birth year 1888
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District LEEDS
County Yorkshire
Country England
Volume 9B
Page 487

Or could it be this one

ALBERT EDWARD
Last name BROOKS
Birth year 1889
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District LEEDS
County Yorkshire
Country England
Volume 9B
Page 506

Which is the birth that you think is the correct one, as there are several possibles?

Did you get the cert to find the father shown as Richard, if so, what details does it give for the mother?

Dea x

Is this 'your' Albert in 1911 ?


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
8 Dorset Street Hulme Manchester, South Manchester, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
John T B Little Head Married Male Engineers Fitter 46 1865 Bellshill Lanarkshire
Transcription
Euphemia Little Wife Married Female - 46 1865 Glasgow Lanarkshire
Transcription
William B Little Son Single Male Clerk Motor Car 20 1891 Alexandria Dumbarton
Transcription
Dugald C Little Son Single Male Brassfinisher 18 1893 Barrhead Renfrweshire
Transcription
John T B Little Son Single Male Paterncard Maker 16 1895 Barrhead Renfrweshire
Transcription
Richard C C Little Son Single Male Patterncard Maker 15 1896 Barrhead Renfrweshire
Transcription
Euphemia B Little Daughter - Female - 10 1901 Barrhead Renfrweshire

**Albert Edward Brooke Boarder Married Male Actor 22 1889 Leeds

I note he is married. Do you know who he married and when and where ? What details did he give for his father on marriage cert?

Dea x

Hi Dea and Shirley I am getting the hang of it,
Thanks very much for your help. Yes the elder children are all her step children from Walter's first marriage.
I did see that entry for an Eliza and a Richard Harris in Barnstaple Workhouse, but have no way of linking them to my Eliza or even to each other.
Dea I do have the marriage cert and the father is listed as James Harris deceased and she is a spinster! I also wondered if Richard was a face save and tried to look for her and a Richard(maybe brother) in the 1881 census for the address on the marriage cert but no joy ??
shirley,I'm... thanks for the two refernces to Albert's birth. We believe the Harris ref is the correct one this is because the date of birth is spot on from his death cert and we knew he was born in Leeds. We also know that he was from this family because we have made connections to his step brother and step sisters. We believe he would have been Harris because Eliza and Walter were not married when he was born.

With no solid info on Eliza before she is married it is hard to link her to any parents or siblings and we do not even know if Albert was a Brook(e ) or if he really did have a father called Richard who presumably died. Hence me being stuck here. ??
We suspect not... but it is always possible that if Eliza was Walter's domestic servant (the occupation from her wedding cert) and both their spouses died, then it may have been convenient for both to marry. (Albert was born in Sept 88 and they married in July of the nxt year) We know that Sarah Ann Brook walter's 1st wife died not long after the birth of her last child Lily in 1887, so there are a couple of possibilities!

Hi Dea, yes I believe it was him, as he was an actor. We discovered he had rather a colourful life 'marrying' women siring 2/3 children then moving on leaving his 'spouses' to tell everyone he had died. I have a lot of info on him but none on his mum!
The marriage mentioned on the census u found was probably fictitious. The only marriage cert we found for him was conveniently to my grandma in 1923. The info he gave was bogus, his age, his fathers name as William, which we know to be untrue because we have linked up to step cousins who have photos so we know he is definitely from this Walter Brook family.

(is that his Birth reference below?)

Chris :)

Yorkshire Birth indexes for the years: 1888

HARRIS Albert E Leeds West Leeds WEST/183/273

http://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk/index.php


Yorkshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1889

BROOKE Walter HARRIS Eliza L Leeds Registered Building Leeds RB/97/42


30 November 1942 - Yorkshire Evening Post - Leeds, West Yorkshire

Divorce Causes At Leeds Assizes.
Florence Amy Brooke. Markham Avenue, Leeds: desertion by Albert Edward Harris Brooke, soldier

Thank you for the yorkshire ref. Does this lead to a difft cert? I have the gro one that states no father, and the parish of st Mathews that states its Richard.
The wedding ref ..again, can I ask if these are local records and if they will differ from the gro. I am in Australia so it is difficult to visit, but if I can gather enough info on where to look on my next visit to UK I can always go and see if there is more info locally.
I am intrigued by the desertion ref at the bottom. Of all the ladies that we have complied there isnt a Florence Amy ... perhaps more cousins to find?? Altho one of Alberts sons had his name. The Harris has been added to many of the children's names which is why we are trying to track down Eliza

Dea, The Parish entry that I have is for st Matthew's if I read the writing correctly in 1888 and the parents are listed a Richard and Eliza Harris. They live at 38 Carr St. There is no profession listed. The record number is 683. Sorry this is a baptism record on Oct 19 1888 he is named Albert Edward. That is all the info

On the GRO which was registered in Oct 1888 He is born 30/9/1888 at 49 Carr st, boy is called Albert Edward Jackson, mother Louisa Harris A domestic servant, 40 Carr st Leeds.

The info on her is sparse

Well ties in with Birth posted by Shirley above, with the J added...

Chris :)

Oh and I think the witnesses on the marriage cert of Eliza and Walter maybe from the registry office as one is Leonard Sedgewick ...but the superintendent registrar is named Robert Sedgewick the other witness appears to be DP Younghusband, there are no rellies in our family of that name

Thanks Chris , we think ghe desertion reference to Florence was Albert's eldest known son. He was married to Florence. Desertion was probably one of the few reasons for divorce in those days!

Yorkshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1931

BROOKE * Albert E H HILL Florence A St Aidan, Leeds Leeds CE29/E/473


Marriages Dec 1931 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------------
Brook Albert E H Hill Leeds North 9b 525
Hill Florence A Brook Leeds North 9b 525

Chris :)

(if her below)

Yorkshire Birth indexes for the years: 1913

HILL Florence A Wortley Leeds WORT/191/120


Births Jun 1913 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Hill Florence A Gluckstein Bramley 9b 483


1939 Register (Find My Past)

73 Markham Avenue , Leeds C.B., Yorkshire
Florence Amy Hill (Brooke) 16 May 1913 Female Collar Machinist Married

The Eliza Harris in the workhouse in 1871 was born in Landkey. Maybe this is her.

Baptisms for Landkey - 1868 - Parents James and Martha Harris

Eliza born June 1865
also baptised on the same day:
Bessie born 1863; and
Alice born 1868

1861 census Landkey

James Harris 49 Thatcher Landkey
Martha Harris wife 39 Appledore
Elizabeth Harris dau 7 Landkey
Samuel Harris son 5 Landkey
Henry Harris son 3 Landkey
Richard son 4 mons Landkey

Mother Martha is also in Barnstaple Workhouse in 1871.

Also on the same page are Richard, Bessie, Samuel and Henry