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I am trying to find George Marquiss, carpenter. Born @1818. He had son George Nation Marquiss b 1838 in Crowcombe, Somerset. I know of George snr as his is on George Nation's marriage cert. I looked on baptism parish records on the internet for Crowcombe and found both George Nation and Elizabeth Marquiss but only their mother was listed Marrianne - servant in Crowcombe, no surname and no husband. In the 1841 census Elizabeth and George are living with Aunt and Uncle as 'Morquis'. In 51 census just Elizabeth is living with Aunt and Uncle and George has gone to union workhouse. Where do I go from here. I just cannot get my head round this one. Many thanks

Are you saying that on the baptisms that only the mother was named? If yes then Im afraid they were probably iligitimate and the only way of finding a probable father would be if the mother tried to get child support (in those days - bastardy bonds) these will be kept at the local records office. Suzanne

Susan - can you confirm if the baptism is George Nation Marquiss, mother Marianne Marquiss, no father's name? Because if so, then I would guess that his father probably was not called George Marquiss, but possibly was called George Nation, or George something else. He may not have wanted to go into the fact that he was illegitimate at his wedding, so he let the vicar or registrar assume that his father's surname was the same as his? Kate.

Could this a rellie? Deaths Mar 1842 MARQUIS George Greenwich 5 175

Following on from what Kate has said: There is tihs death which covers the crowcombe area: Deaths Mar 1841 NATION George Williton 10 369

Thanks for all your info. Yes only the mother's christian name was listed as Marianne. I can confirm that it stated George Nation Marquiss. His name was George Marquiss because it says this on George Nation Marquiss' marriage certificate. Have I made sense?

Susan - I realise that it says father's name George Marquiss on George Nation Marquiss's marriage certificate, but that doesn't mean it is true! I have seen lots of similar examples where the correct first name was given for the father, but the surname should have been different. And the father's surname was often used as a middle name for the child if he / she was illegitimate, which is why I am guessing the father could have been called George Nation, unless you know of another reason for the Nation part of the name? As for Marianne's surname, it might be worth you looking at the actual parish record entry if you can to see exactly how it is laid out. But my guess is that her surname would be Marquiss. Kate.

You have at least one sibling of either George or Marianne from the 1841 and 1851 census presumably as they are down as Aunt/uncle, can you find their baptism to shed any light on the matter? This might confirm or dispell the theory? Suzanne

Thanks for your help Kate but I am being a bit daft about this obviously. Do you perhaps think then that George, when he was old enough, used his mother's surname which was Marquiss rather than Nation. Also that George's real father was perhaps George Nation? I have just had another look at the records and there does appear to be Nations in Crowcombe. To get George Nation Marquiss's birth certificate isn't possible is it because it prior to records being recorded - am I right?

Yes, Susan, that is what I think. As for whether George's birth would have been registered, if his age is 3 on the 1841 census then he could have been born just before the start of civil registration, or just after. But not all births were registered before 1875 anyway. Was Elizabeth younger than him? In which case perhaps you could get her birth certificate (though of course she may have had a different father, and in any case the father's name is probably not on the certificate if he wasn't married to the mother) Kate.

Suzanne, All I have in the 1841 census is the two siblings of George Marquiss and Elizabeth Marquiss living with their Aunt and Uncle John Marquiss. There is no mention of Marianne only on the baptism records for both George and Elizabeth Marquiss. I know, I know I think I'm getting confused - it's just that I cannot get my head round it. Haven't been doing it for long just a few months!

Kate, just my luck Elizabeth was older born in 1835.

Susan, can you tell me how to find the online baptism records for Crowcombe, please, so I can see exactly what it says for George and Elizabeth's baptisms? Kate.

I thought prehaps the children were unlucky enough to have lost BOTh parents but I cant see a death for a Marianne Marquis or variants. Depending on when young George was born???? She may have died in child birth adn if he was born before civil registration then her death may be too? By trying to find the baptism of the living rellie from the censuses you might be able to find either George senior's or Marianne's true identity as one of their baptisms is surely to be found within a few years of them to the same parents? Suzanne P.S. Youve done very well to get this far if you have not been doing it long....well done to you!!! XX

1841 guess the name of the missing Nation husband View Record Elanor Morquis abt 1791 Somerset, England Bicknoller Somerset View Record Elizabeth Morquis abt 1835 Somerset, England Bicknoller Somerset View Record George Morquis abt 1838 Somerset, England Bicknoller Somerset View Record Joanna Morquis abt 1827 Somerset, England Bicknoller Somerset View Record John Morquis abt 1791 Somerset, England Bicknoller Somerset View Record John Morquis abt 1826 Somerset, England Bicknoller Somerset View Record Richard Morquis abt 1829 Somerset, England Bicknoller Somerset View Record Elizabeth Nation abt 1840 Somerset, England Bicknoller Somerset View Record George Nation abt 1828 Somerset, England Bicknoller Somerset View Record Jane Nation abt 1833 Somerset, England Bicknoller Somerset View Record Sarah Nation abt 1806 Somerset, England Bicknoller Somerset

Kate, of course it is http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/ian.sage/index.htm and then on the left find index of somerset PRs online. Scroll down until you find Crowcombe and then baptism, marriages and deaths are in there. Thanks, Sue

I'm sure I'm being completely thick here, but I can't see George or Elizabeth in the Bicknoller baptisms on http://myweb.tiscali*co*uk/ian.sage/ (replace * with .) selecting 'Crowcombe from Martin Southwood' and then 'Bicknoller baptisms 1813-1860'. Where am I going wrong? Oh, and by the way, those Nations and Marquisses that somebody listed above from the 1841 are not actually in the same household as each other, just to make it clear. George and Elizabeth 'Morquis' are obviously not the children of John and Eleanor as there is a little line separating them from the rest of the Morquis household, so I'm sure you're right about them being niece and nephew. Kate.

Kate, they are under Crowcombe baptism records 1813-1840 towards the bottom.

Suzanne, you say 'By trying to find the baptism of the living rellie from the censuses you might be able to find either George senior's or Marianne's true identity as one of their baptisms is surely to be found within a few years of them to the same parents?' which living rellie do you mean please?, Sue

Anyway, trying to get brain in gear, this looks like Uncle John in the pre-1812 Bicknoller baptisms: Marquis John John/Betty 26 2 1792 But the only possible I can find for Marianne is this one: Marquess Mary John/Eleanor Village Lab 13 4 1817 which would make George and Elizabeth John's grandchildren rather than nephew and niece. (Not unknown for this kind of mistake to occur on censuses though) Kate.